NYCPHP Meetup

[Kristina D. H. Anderson]

I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced 
here.  In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of 
knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other 
profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we 
do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone 
feels our work is worth "minimum wage".  

And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer 
geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or 
that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are 
good to go...and how much can that cost?  Please, programmers are not 
all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or 
possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives 
toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*.

This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of 
things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our 
field that would perform the core functions that they do in other 
industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to 
fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates 
in our industry.  Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the 
MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever 
they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union 
programmers...or whatever the solution might be.

I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by 
undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should 
be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and 
even potentially harmful.

Happy coding everyone, 

Kristina



> 
> Folks,
> 
> I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted 
the
> advertisement.  I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what 
employers are
> looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above 
minimum wage
> here.  I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of 
the
> state of the application after developed.
> 
> I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base 
price is 8
> times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure 
there
> are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why 
would we
> want those types of Ads.
> 
> I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are 
willing to
> write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the 
NY is
> going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition.
> Nothing personal (and I mean that)
> 
> To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it 
said 8 -
> 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide.
> When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or 
developers in
> NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in 
NYC.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle <paul at devonianfarm.com> 
wrote:
> 
> > Web wrote:
> >
> >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in 
India.
> >>  Nor do I get work from India.
> >>  That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list.  For New York PHP 
jobs.  NEW
> >> YORK!
> >>  Start your own IndiaPHP list.
> >>  Thank you,
> >>
> >>
> >   People in India don't get work from India.  A big drop in the 
dollar
> > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and 
encourage other
> > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services.
> >
> >   There are some world-class organizations in India,  and there are 
a lot
> > of smaller ones that aren't so good.  Overall,  India tends to 
underprice
> > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US 
by about
> > 2/3.  In the better cases,  you're paying for more people and for 
people to
> > manage the extra people,  and get good results.  In the worst 
cases,  you
> > just get ripped.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chauncey Thorn
> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com
> url: http://www.cthorn.com/
> 
>