NYCPHP Meetup

[Kristina D. H. Anderson]

Chauncey, 

Your point about unions is very valid and of course, I was just putting 
out suggestions because we would, naturally, as programmers want to 
examine every tiny nuance of any potential solutions and analyze them 
until the cows come home for robustness and completeness...

But, as a population, programmers tend to be extremely self-motivating 
and conscientious about their work product, investing each 1000 lines 
of generated code with a pregnancy of meaning that makes a Presidential 
Election or World Series seem positively insignificant in comparison.  
Therefore, I'd personally expect that the "union effect" you describe 
below would be less pronounced among programmers than in other 
populations.

And besides, what's wrong with getting paid to do nothing once in 
awhile, most other people get paid to do nothing all the time :)

Kristina

> 
> I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a 
number
> of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they 
going to
> be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the 
profession.
> 
> CT
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson <
> ka at kacomputerconsulting.com> wrote:
> 
> > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced
> > here.  In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of
> > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other
> > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), 
we
> > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone
> > feels our work is worth "minimum wage".
> >
> > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold 
that "computer
> > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, 
or
> > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we 
are
> > good to go...and how much can that cost?  Please, programmers are 
not
> > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or
> > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives
> > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*.
> >
> > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of
> > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in 
our
> > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other
> > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and 
to
> > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary 
rates
> > in our industry.  Or a programmer's union that could mandate that 
the
> > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or 
whatever
> > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union
> > programmers...or whatever the solution might be.
> >
> > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by
> > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR 
should
> > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and
> > even potentially harmful.
> >
> > Happy coding everyone,
> >
> > Kristina
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who 
posted
> > the
> > > advertisement.  I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what
> > employers are
> > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above
> > minimum wage
> > > here.  I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless 
of
> > the
> > > state of the application after developed.
> > >
> > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base
> > price is 8
> > > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm 
sure
> > there
> > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why
> > would we
> > > want those types of Ads.
> > >
> > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are
> > willing to
> > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in 
the
> > NY is
> > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the 
competition.
> > > Nothing personal (and I mean that)
> > >
> > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when 
it
> > said 8 -
> > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide.
> > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or
> > developers in
> > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone 
in
> > NYC.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle 
<paul at devonianfarm.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Web wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any 
friends in
> > India.
> > > >>  Nor do I get work from India.
> > > >>  That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list.  For New York PHP
> > jobs.  NEW
> > > >> YORK!
> > > >>  Start your own IndiaPHP list.
> > > >>  Thank you,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >   People in India don't get work from India.  A big drop in the
> > dollar
> > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and
> > encourage other
> > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and 
services.
> > > >
> > > >   There are some world-class organizations in India,  and there 
are
> > a lot
> > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good.  Overall,  India tends to
> > underprice
> > > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the 
US
> > by about
> > > > 2/3.  In the better cases,  you're paying for more people and 
for
> > people to
> > > > manage the extra people,  and get good results.  In the worst
> > cases,  you
> > > > just get ripped.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
> > > >
> > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > > >
> > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chauncey Thorn
> > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com
> > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chauncey Thorn
> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com
> url: http://www.cthorn.com/
> 
>