NYCPHP Meetup

[Aditya]

Good point. People don't always offshore because its cheaper, there is
a talent gap somewhere aswell.

I am based in India aswell, represent a software firm and I can tell
you this, eventually Indian firms and US software firms would be
competing on skills & service rather than solely on price because the
prices are evening out overall in both markets anyways.

Currently though there is a price difference (no 8$ or even 15$ is not
even a fair price even in India). But providers/programmers in US have
other advantages over India programmers - proximity, location,
cultural advantage, communication, skills, domain-market experience
etc etc.

This might pinch some, but frankly if i owned a web consulting
business in US, and hiring programmers offshore saves me say 40% of my
expenditure, it can be the difference between a loss making business &
a profitable one, why wldn't I do it, would i worry about my family's
well being/investors first or care about a nagging employee who is
looking for a pay hike in a bad economy & not helping my business much
anyways?

We have firms who would become loss making the day they hire local
staff (for some skills if they can even manage to find local staff it
would be surprising), they are only profitable because they have a
managed team in India.

All's fair here, Its just how you sell on your strength. All about ROI.

 Just my 2 cents, no right or wrongs here.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Shahan Avedian<savedian at starpoint.com> wrote:
> I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area.   I can tell you right
> now I have jobs paying  150k with 300K total package that we cannot find
> people for right in Manhattan.  The one's that are qualified are all working
> and won't consider it.  I speak to consultants all the time who will not get
> off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour.  ( Some would view 95.00 as a
> pay cut).   It all comes down to skill set.  For every job that is being
> offshored…there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any
> intention of being offshored.
>
>
>
> Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer…cannot tell you
> how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got
> paid $100.00 per hour.   Offshoring is hear to stay…its not just in the
> computer programming world.  If companies can get the same thing done at a
> cheaper rate its going to go abroad.  If they need a real heavy hitter its
> going to stay here.  The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims
> and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your
> problems.  I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers
> who don't share these views.
>
>
>
> SA
>
>
>
> From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
> Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM
> To: Kristina D. H. Anderson
> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects
>
>
>
> I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number
> of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to
> be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession.
>
> CT
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson
> <ka at kacomputerconsulting.com> wrote:
>
> I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced
> here.  In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of
> knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other
> profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we
> do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone
> feels our work is worth "minimum wage".
>
> And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer
> geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or
> that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are
> good to go...and how much can that cost?  Please, programmers are not
> all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or
> possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives
> toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*.
>
> This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of
> things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our
> field that would perform the core functions that they do in other
> industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to
> fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates
> in our industry.  Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the
> MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever
> they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union
> programmers...or whatever the solution might be.
>
> I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by
> undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should
> be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and
> even potentially harmful.
>
> Happy coding everyone,
>
> Kristina
>
>
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted
> the
>> advertisement.  I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what
> employers are
>> looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above
> minimum wage
>> here.  I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of
> the
>> state of the application after developed.
>>
>> I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base
> price is 8
>> times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure
> there
>> are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why
> would we
>> want those types of Ads.
>>
>> I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are
> willing to
>> write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the
> NY is
>> going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition.
>> Nothing personal (and I mean that)
>>
>> To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it
> said 8 -
>> 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide.
>> When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or
> developers in
>> NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in
> NYC.
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle <paul at devonianfarm.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> > Web wrote:
>> >
>> >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in
> India.
>> >>  Nor do I get work from India.
>> >>  That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list.  For New York PHP
> jobs.  NEW
>> >> YORK!
>> >>  Start your own IndiaPHP list.
>> >>  Thank you,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >   People in India don't get work from India.  A big drop in the
> dollar
>> > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and
> encourage other
>> > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services.
>> >
>> >   There are some world-class organizations in India,  and there are
> a lot
>> > of smaller ones that aren't so good.  Overall,  India tends to
> underprice
>> > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US
> by about
>> > 2/3.  In the better cases,  you're paying for more people and for
> people to
>> > manage the extra people,  and get good results.  In the worst
> cases,  you
>> > just get ripped.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chauncey Thorn
>> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
>> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com
>> url: http://www.cthorn.com/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> --
> Chauncey Thorn
> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com
> url: http://www.cthorn.com/
>
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>
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>
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