NYCPHP Meetup

[Adam]

I agree Ophir's sentiment.  I do a lot of freelance myself, run my own
company that produces a product where I also hire a lot of freelancers
to do php work, vb client side windows and Delphi work.  (If any of you
are Delphi wizards, please email me!)

When I hirer a programmer I ask them for a project price, and I normally
neg. a certain amount of hours after completion for bug testing and
minor revisions.. all in the base cost.  Then anything new and major I
do at fixed cost again.  
I have one programmer now that I have on a maintenance contract for the
lifecycle of this version, which is until September.  He wrote the
software, and now is on call for any quick changes etc.  This is a
win/win situation.  I know it costs me $X/month to have the piece of
mind my software will be supported no matter what.  He has the piece of
mind knowing he can pay his rent, go on vacation, or whatever. :)

On the other side, when I take a freelance gig, it is normally for
graphic design and implementation of the backend. (I have a friend I
work with) And I always make up a contract with each module depicted and
how long it will take approx. and then give a project price, and payment
terms. Usually 25%, 50% at a milestone, and 25% on completion.  I also
host all my clients work, and charge for hosting, and a maintenance
contract for bug fixes, server maintainence etc.  Once I started doing
the hosting, I started keeping clients, and making more $ as you are
much more intimately involved in their business.

As Ophir said it is _very_ important that your client understands that
additional work is not included in the project price.  Scope creep is a
horrible thing for a programmer.  If scope creep isn't talked about,
your client will assume he can make a change here or there and its OK,
nor realizing how much effort it takes to alter an existing system on a
whim.   And what will wind up happening is you getting shafted, and thus
hurting the entire freelance market because if enough people do this, it
will become the norm... As that's why hourly rates are so low these
days.

Just keep in mind, the contractor wants to get the lowest price and will
cry poor at every conveinance.  It is up to you to stick to your guns
and realize that if he really wants the work done, he will give you what
you deserve.  A line that always works well with me is "You get what you
pay for" ... And then give a small discount, or include an extra service
at the same cost.  (For me, I will give the first month of hosting or
something)

Sorry for the rant, I have just been seeing way to much greed among
contractors f'in over freelancers because the freelancers wont stick up
for themselves.  Is a bad situation.  Contracts and Confidence are good.
If anyone wants some help with one let me know, I'd be happy to look it
over or comment. I'm no lawyer, but I have put together hundreds of jobs
over the past bunch of years.

-----Original Message-----
From: ophir prusak [mailto:prutwo at onebox.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 10:20 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] appropriate rates


Personally, I'd go the route of a fixed price for a WELL defined site
upgrade, and then $X an hour for changes / upgrades.

It it's more than 1 (or 2) hours work to create a specficiation
document,
charge something small just for that. (so they won't get your document
with the nescasasy changes and then get a cheaper bid elsewhere and
leave
you with nothing).

In this day and age, most places need to control costs, so a fixed price
can give them some peace of mind. Also - it's easier to give a
"discount"
on a fixed price for the WHOLE project.

Also - see if you can get from them what their budget is and try to work
something out accordingly.

If you do go with fixed price, make sure to include a clause where
they'll
pay you for hours worked if for some reason they want to break the
contract.

Ultimiately, you need to figure out how much it's worth it to you to
get this project.

hope that helps.
ophir

----
Ophir Prusak
Internet developer 
prutwo at onebox.com | http://www.prusak.com/ 



---- "Kenneth Schwartz" <kenschwartz at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> I know this question is hard to answer due to the many factors that
> could be involved.   But I'm just looking for very general input. 
> I'm wondering if anyone can give me ballpark idea of appropriate
rates/project
> price for a fairly 'normal' upgrade from a static HTML site to one
> with some PHP enabled dynamic components.  By 'normal' I mean nothing
> crazy in the data model or code expected.  I need to give a client
> a project price and I've been working completely inside a corporate
> environment for the past 3 years so I really don't know what the
freelance
> market will bear.  Anyone wish to enlighten me?
> 
> Thanks and best regards,
> Kenneth Schwartz
> 
>