From greg.rundlett at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 00:41:18 2005 From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:41:18 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] passthru() return codes In-Reply-To: <4b1887110511300708s31b20c2fi2a60a7ec9a61abba@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b1887110511300708s31b20c2fi2a60a7ec9a61abba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5e2aaca40511302141i4b589a7do61d75d068dd1917d@mail.gmail.com> On 11/30/05, Jeff Loiselle wrote: > Anyone know where I can find an exhaustive list of return codes for > functions like exec() and passthru()? Apparently, I'm Google Retarded > today. > exec() doesn't return codes exec() returns a string. The string returned is the last line of output from whatever system command you exec'd, which may or may not be very useful to you. $strResult = exec('cat myLongTextFile.txt'); will give you the last line of that text file. You can optionally set the argument to the exec() function to capture all the output of the system command, but that's not what you're asking, so excuse me for being pedantic. The passthru() command is capable of returning the return code of the system call. As noted in the manual http://php.net/passthru void passthru ( string command [, int &return_var] ) For some of the special return codes that are possible from the BASH environment, see http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/exitcodes.html If you need more information about the process that you're trying to run, including the return code, you might have better luck with the proc_open() function which is pretty nifty. Good luck. From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 09:21:02 2005 From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:21:02 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] passthru() return codes In-Reply-To: <5e2aaca40511302141i4b589a7do61d75d068dd1917d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b1887110511300708s31b20c2fi2a60a7ec9a61abba@mail.gmail.com> <5e2aaca40511302141i4b589a7do61d75d068dd1917d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b1887110512010621g46af9da9qb34d7191dc2d379c@mail.gmail.com> Greg, Thanks for the reply. But after nobody replied yesterday, I pretty much figured it all out. ;-) passthru() does return error codes.. and apparently it can send error codes from a variety of places.. i've recieved operating system errors codes if it can't find the specified program... but it took me a while to figure out it also returns the error codes of the application you are trying to execute... once i figured that out, everything went fine. ;-) > The passthru() command is capable of returning the return code of the > system call. When I see comments like this, I assume systems calls meaning things like 'stat'.. not things like 'unzip'. ;-) So that's slightly confusing, especially when you're not sure if the error codes are coming from the OS or the program you are executing. thanks. On 11/30/05, Greg Rundlett wrote: > On 11/30/05, Jeff Loiselle wrote: > > Anyone know where I can find an exhaustive list of return codes for > > functions like exec() and passthru()? Apparently, I'm Google Retarded > > today. > > > exec() doesn't return codes > > exec() returns a string. > > The string returned is the last line of output from whatever system > command you exec'd, which may or may not be very useful to you. > > $strResult = exec('cat myLongTextFile.txt'); > > will give you the last line of that text file. You can optionally set > the argument to the exec() function to capture all the output of the > system command, but that's not what you're asking, so excuse me for > being pedantic. > > The passthru() command is capable of returning the return code of the > system call. As noted in the manual http://php.net/passthru > > void passthru ( string command [, int &return_var] ) > > For some of the special return codes that are possible from the BASH > environment, see http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/exitcodes.html > > If you need more information about the process that you're trying to > run, including the return code, you might have better luck with the > proc_open() function which is pretty nifty. > > Good luck. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- --- Jeff Loiselle Web Developer, Musician, and Observer http://jeff.loiselles.com "In America, through pressure of conformity, there is freedom of choice, but nothing to choose from." - Peter Ustinov From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 11:22:12 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:22:12 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: References: <020c01c5f611$c190dae0$6500a8c0@enobrev> Message-ID: On 11/30/05, Wellington Fan wrote: > > I have a Firefox plugin that lets me peek at the response headers, and when I > turned that on -- surprise! -- it *also* requests my script, and thus, > generates another hit. Check all you plugins, especially web development-type > ones that might be generating more requests w/o your knowing it... > Oooh, good one! From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Dec 1 12:20:33 2005 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:20:33 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004201c5f69b$89900cd0$6500a8c0@enobrev> > > when I turned that on -- surprise! -- it *also* requests my script, > > and thus, generates another hit. Check all you plugins, > especially web > > development-type ones that might be generating more > requests w/o your knowing it... > > > > > Oooh, good one! Damned god suggestion indeed. Killed ALL my extensions, with the plan to add them one by one to figure out which one was the culprit. Alas... The problem continues. I've also removed the content disposition header completely. I'm about to try re-installing FF. But I rely want to know if this is just my one installation of Firefox 1.5 or if I'm going to be dealing with such a thing all day every day as it's downloaded by millions across the globe. Here's the php gif: http://counter.enobrev.com/ff_tester.php Here's the output: http://counter.enobrev.com/output.txt Here's the actual gif: http://counter.enobrev.com/count.gif In case anybody wants to see it in action. Also, I've added ip address to the output line (since there may be more than one trying this out). Here's the code: ----------------- require_once 'function.file_put_contents.php'; require_once 'function.get.ip.php'; file_put_contents('./output.txt', get_ip() . ': ' . date('m/d/Y G:i:s') . ': ' . $_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'] . "\n"); header('Content-Type: image/gif'); readfile('./count.gif'); ----------------- Also, the original version of this was using file_get_contents.. And then I tried good ol fopen. readfile just seemed to be the most direct route. Thanks, all, for your comments and suggestions Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of csnyder > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:22 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - > Firefox or PHP? > > On 11/30/05, Wellington Fan wrote: > > > > I have a Firefox plugin that lets me peek at the response > headers, and > > when I turned that on -- surprise! -- it *also* requests my script, > > and thus, generates another hit. Check all you plugins, > especially web > > development-type ones that might be generating more > requests w/o your knowing it... > > > > > Oooh, good one! > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Dec 1 12:28:37 2005 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:28:37 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <004201c5f69b$89900cd0$6500a8c0@enobrev> Message-ID: <004301c5f69c$aa352d70$6500a8c0@enobrev> Also, pardon the typos, this wireless keyboard's gotta go... Here's a repost of the code (with proper newlines) require_once 'function.file_put_contents.php'; require_once 'function.get.ip.php'; file_put_contents('./output.txt', get_ip() . ': ' . date('m/d/Y G:i:s') . ': ' . $_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'] . "\n"); header('Content-Type: image/gif'); readfile('./count.gif'); Mark From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 14:11:39 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:11:39 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <004201c5f69b$89900cd0$6500a8c0@enobrev> References: <004201c5f69b$89900cd0$6500a8c0@enobrev> Message-ID: On 12/1/05, Mark Armendariz wrote: > I've also removed the content disposition header completely. I'm about to > try re-installing FF. But I rely want to know if this is just my one > installation of Firefox 1.5 or if I'm going to be dealing with such a thing > all day every day as it's downloaded by millions across the globe. > Ok, this is me: 209.11.29.178: 12/01/2005 11:08:39: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8) Gecko/20051111 Firefox/1.5 Only one hit from FF 1.5 on Windows... but then, I might be using RC2 still, I don't remember seeing FF update to the full 1.5 release. -- Chris Snyder http://chxo.com/ From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Dec 1 14:40:16 2005 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:40:16 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004a01c5f6af$0e66b950$6500a8c0@enobrev> > Ok, this is me: > 209.11.29.178: 12/01/2005 11:08:39: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; > Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8) Gecko/20051111 Firefox/1.5 > > Only one hit from FF 1.5 on Windows... but then, I might be > using RC2 still, I don't remember seeing FF update to the > full 1.5 release. I saw that. User agent's the same. I just removed FF, rebooted, re-downloaded and installed. Same Problem. Such a strange thing. I have some deadlines to keep, so I have to put this down for a bit. I'm just going to keep the header caching for now. Thanks for the time, suggestions and trials. I'll post if I ever figure out what the problem is. Mark From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com Thu Dec 1 15:30:47 2005 From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:30:47 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <004201c5f69b$89900cd0$6500a8c0@enobrev> References: <004201c5f69b$89900cd0$6500a8c0@enobrev> Message-ID: <14782-74319@sneakemail.com> Very curious indeed. Same behavior with Flock and older Mozilla Firebird 0.7, so a FF reinstall probably won't help you. -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com Mark Armendariz nyphp-at-enobrev.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: >>>when I turned that on -- surprise! -- it *also* requests my script, >>>and thus, generates another hit. Check all you plugins, >>> >>> >>especially web >> >> >>>development-type ones that might be generating more >>> >>> >>requests w/o your knowing it... >> >> >>Oooh, good one! >> >> > >Damned god suggestion indeed. Killed ALL my extensions, with the plan to >add them one by one to figure out which one was the culprit. Alas... The >problem continues. > >I've also removed the content disposition header completely. I'm about to >try re-installing FF. But I rely want to know if this is just my one >installation of Firefox 1.5 or if I'm going to be dealing with such a thing >all day every day as it's downloaded by millions across the globe. > >Here's the php gif: >http://counter.enobrev.com/ff_tester.php > >Here's the output: >http://counter.enobrev.com/output.txt > >Here's the actual gif: >http://counter.enobrev.com/count.gif > >In case anybody wants to see it in action. Also, I've added ip address to >the output line (since there may be more than one trying this out). > >Here's the code: >----------------- >require_once 'function.file_put_contents.php'; >require_once 'function.get.ip.php'; >file_put_contents('./output.txt', get_ip() . ': ' . date('m/d/Y G:i:s') . ': >' . $_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'] . "\n"); > >header('Content-Type: image/gif'); >readfile('./count.gif'); >----------------- > >Also, the original version of this was using file_get_contents.. And then I >tried good ol fopen. readfile just seemed to be the most direct route. > >Thanks, all, for your comments and suggestions > >Mark > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org >>[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of csnyder >>Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:22 AM >>To: NYPHP Talk >>Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - >>Firefox or PHP? >> >>On 11/30/05, Wellington Fan wrote: >> >> >>>I have a Firefox plugin that lets me peek at the response >>> >>> >>headers, and >> >> >>>when I turned that on -- surprise! -- it *also* requests my script, >>>and thus, generates another hit. Check all you plugins, >>> >>> >>especially web >> >> >>>development-type ones that might be generating more >>> >>> >>requests w/o your knowing it... >> >> >>Oooh, good one! >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk Mailing List >>AMP Technology >>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.nyphp.org >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org > > > From chris at theyellowbox.com Thu Dec 1 16:03:23 2005 From: chris at theyellowbox.com (Chris Merlo) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:03:23 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <004a01c5f6af$0e66b950$6500a8c0@enobrev> References: <004a01c5f6af$0e66b950$6500a8c0@enobrev> Message-ID: <946586480512011303r13b60311ld236713efe087305@mail.gmail.com> On 12/1/05, Mark Armendariz wrote: > I saw that. User agent's the same. I just removed FF, rebooted, > re-downloaded and installed. Same Problem. > Depending on OS and other factors, removing and reinstalling Firefox might not have done anything whatsoever to which plugins are installed and running. Be careful about what you assume. -- chris at theyellowbox.com http://www.theyellowbox.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 16:09:41 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:09:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <14782-74319@sneakemail.com> References: <004201c5f69b$89900cd0$6500a8c0@enobrev> <14782-74319@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, subsequent requests by FF result in the double hit. Mark, have you considered that maybe this is once for HEAD request to see if the image changed since the last request, and once for GET when nothing definitive comes back from HEAD? If you add $_SERVER['REQUEST_METHOD'] to the output, we might solve this. -- Chris Snyder http://chxo.com/ From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Dec 1 16:15:18 2005 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:15:18 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c5f6bc$54f64f40$6500a8c0@enobrev> > If you add $_SERVER['REQUEST_METHOD'] to the output, we might > solve this. Added. From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Dec 1 16:16:30 2005 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:16:30 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <946586480512011303r13b60311ld236713efe087305@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006201c5f6bc$7f8a1ed0$6500a8c0@enobrev> > Depending on OS and other factors, removing and reinstalling Firefox might not have done anything whatsoever to which plugins are installed and running. Be careful about what you assume. Absolutely, I'd removed the entire folder post-uninstall. I hadn't killed registry entries though. May try that next. ________________________________ From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chris Merlo Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:03 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? On 12/1/05, Mark Armendariz wrote: I saw that. User agent's the same. I just removed FF, rebooted, re-downloaded and installed. Same Problem. Depending on OS and other factors, removing and reinstalling Firefox might not have done anything whatsoever to which plugins are installed and running. Be careful about what you assume. -- chris at theyellowbox.com http://www.theyellowbox.com/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005 From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 16:35:38 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:35:38 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <006101c5f6bc$54f64f40$6500a8c0@enobrev> References: <006101c5f6bc$54f64f40$6500a8c0@enobrev> Message-ID: On 12/1/05, Mark Armendariz wrote: > > If you add $_SERVER['REQUEST_METHOD'] to the output, we might > > solve this. > > Added. > Nope. I was all excited about that, too. Okay, will try to forget... From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 17:24:37 2005 From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:24:37 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Creatings Thumbnails with GD In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910511231032h4a90efb6x8253f38bf5c45cf4@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b1887110511231025t1b705b00n8d9c0a360c7aa0b9@mail.gmail.com> <2ca9ba910511231032h4a90efb6x8253f38bf5c45cf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b1887110512011424q5877b9cej2fce625c7e3640c6@mail.gmail.com> is there any way i can raise the output quality on this thumbnail function? --- Jeff Loiselle Web Developer, Musician, and Observer http://jeff.loiselles.com From billy.reisinger at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 17:35:10 2005 From: billy.reisinger at gmail.com (billy reisinger) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 17:35:10 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Creatings Thumbnails with GD In-Reply-To: <4b1887110512011424q5877b9cej2fce625c7e3640c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b1887110511231025t1b705b00n8d9c0a360c7aa0b9@mail.gmail.com> <2ca9ba910511231032h4a90efb6x8253f38bf5c45cf4@mail.gmail.com> <4b1887110512011424q5877b9cej2fce625c7e3640c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <14a0d8670512011435j11507c2dxe9fe42a56d36df80@mail.gmail.com> in the line very near the bottom: imagejpeg($dest); this function takes a third parameter, which is an integer (1-100) representing the quality of the output file. (The second parameter is optional, skip it with two apostrophes) Of course, the higher the number, the higher quality the image is - of course, along with the filesize being larger, too. I use around 50 - 60 for thumbnails, because, c'mon, the image quality of a thumbnail is really NOT that important. It's the large image where quality counts. anyway, change the line to something like this: imagejpeg($dest, '', 80); Note that the imagepng() function does not support an output quality parameter, nor does the imagegif() function. So if you want to adjust image quality, stick with jpg's. Cheers. On 12/1/05, Jeff Loiselle wrote: > > is there any way i can raise the output quality on this thumbnail > function? > > --- > Jeff Loiselle > Web Developer, Musician, and Observer > http://jeff.loiselles.com > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Billy Reisinger billy.reisinger at gmail.com 410.736.0148 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 19:54:09 2005 From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:54:09 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Creatings Thumbnails with GD In-Reply-To: <14a0d8670512011435j11507c2dxe9fe42a56d36df80@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b1887110511231025t1b705b00n8d9c0a360c7aa0b9@mail.gmail.com> <2ca9ba910511231032h4a90efb6x8253f38bf5c45cf4@mail.gmail.com> <4b1887110512011424q5877b9cej2fce625c7e3640c6@mail.gmail.com> <14a0d8670512011435j11507c2dxe9fe42a56d36df80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b1887110512011654y3d2bfa32g31b88cfcf398084f@mail.gmail.com> Ah thanks. That was so simple. Maybe if I weren't in such a hurry I could read the screen. ;-) --- Jeff Loiselle Web Developer, Musician, and Observer http://jeff.loiselles.com From mikko.rantalainen at peda.net Fri Dec 2 03:59:06 2005 From: mikko.rantalainen at peda.net (Mikko Rantalainen) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:59:06 +0200 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Double Loading PHP as image - Firefox or PHP? In-Reply-To: <006201c5f6bc$7f8a1ed0$6500a8c0@enobrev> References: <006201c5f6bc$7f8a1ed0$6500a8c0@enobrev> Message-ID: <43900CDA.1090406@peda.net> Mark Armendariz wrote: >> Depending on OS and other factors, removing and reinstalling Firefox >> >> might not have done anything whatsoever to which plugins are installed and >> running. Be careful about what you assume. > > Absolutely, I'd removed the entire folder post-uninstall. I hadn't killed > registry entries though. May try that next. As far as I know, FF doesn't store anything interesting in the registry. It seems you're using MS Outlook and I'll just assume that you're using Windows XP. FF stores all your settings to your "profile". Pretty much all recent extensions install into your profile directory. Your profile directories will not be removed even if you uninstall the FF. You can create an another profile for FF without removing you existing one. See e.g. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Command_line_arguments If you're wondering where the profile is stored by default, then look here: http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile No need to guess, just RTFM. -- Mikko From scott at crisscott.com Fri Dec 2 10:48:44 2005 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:48:44 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x Message-ID: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> Hello, Can someone with PHP 5.1 installed run a little test for me? We are still running 5.0.3 and the sys admin has been dragging his feet about updating. If my problem is fixed in 5.1 I think I can get him to upgrade much more quickly. Anyway, the problem is with ctype_digit returning true for null strings. Can someone with 5.1 let me know the output of this line: var_dump(ctype_digit('')); There is a comment on the manual page that says it shouldn't return true for versions since 4.4.1, but that is just a comment. I can't find any bug reports for it and I don't want to create one unless the issue still exists in the latest version. Thanks for the help, -- Scott Mattocks scott at crisscott.com http://www.crisscott.com http://pear.php.net/user/scottmattocks From shiflett at php.net Fri Dec 2 11:21:59 2005 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 11:21:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <439074A7.3070008@php.net> Scott Mattocks wrote: > Anyway, the problem is with ctype_digit returning true for null > strings. There is no such thing as a null string, because null is not a string. I think you mean the empty string, based on your example: > var_dump(ctype_digit('')); > > There is a comment on the manual page that says it shouldn't > return true for versions since 4.4.1, but that is just a comment. > I can't find any bug reports for it and I don't want to create > one unless the issue still exists in the latest version. Why would this be considered a bug? The ctype_digit() function returns true if every character in a string is a digit. The length of the string seems like a separate criterion. Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ From scott at crisscott.com Fri Dec 2 11:32:56 2005 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 11:32:56 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <439074A7.3070008@php.net> References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> <439074A7.3070008@php.net> Message-ID: <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> Chris Shiflett wrote: > Scott Mattocks wrote: >> Anyway, the problem is with ctype_digit returning true for null >> strings. > > There is no such thing as a null string, because null is not a string. I > think you mean the empty string, based on your example: Yes. I meant empty string. Sorry. > Why would this be considered a bug? > > The ctype_digit() function returns true if every character in a string > is a digit. The length of the string seems like a separate criterion. It would be a bug because it doesn't function as one would expect. The manual says, " Returns TRUE if every character in text is a decimal digit, FALSE otherwise." Since there are no characters, they cannot be decimal digits. Therefore, I would expect the "FALSE otherwise" to kick in. If it said, "Returns FALSE if the string contains non-decimal characters" I might agree with you. It may just be semantics, but do you really expect ctype_digit('') to return TRUE? Anyway, I decided not to be such a dummy and just downloaded the Windows version. In 5.1.1 (on Windows at least), ctype_digit('') returns false. Thanks, Scott From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Dec 2 12:11:05 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:11:05 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> <439074A7.3070008@php.net> <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> Message-ID: On 12/2/05, Scott Mattocks wrote: > Chris Shiflett wrote: > > Scott Mattocks wrote: > >> Anyway, the problem is with ctype_digit returning true for null > >> strings. > > > > There is no such thing as a null string, because null is not a string. I > > think you mean the empty string, based on your example: > > Yes. I meant empty string. Sorry. > > > Why would this be considered a bug? > > > > The ctype_digit() function returns true if every character in a string > > is a digit. The length of the string seems like a separate criterion. > > It would be a bug because it doesn't function as one would expect. The > manual says, " Returns TRUE if every character in text is a decimal > digit, FALSE otherwise." Since there are no characters, they cannot be > decimal digits. Therefore, I would expect the "FALSE otherwise" to kick > in. If it said, "Returns FALSE if the string contains non-decimal > characters" I might agree with you. It may just be semantics, but do you > really expect ctype_digit('') to return TRUE? > > Anyway, I decided not to be such a dummy and just downloaded the Windows > version. In 5.1.1 (on Windows at least), ctype_digit('') returns false. > > Thanks, > Scott As a non-c programmer (and therefore someone without expectations about how such a function should work) I have to agree that this seems like a bug to me, too, and it's one of the main reasons why I don't use the ctype functions for validation. An empty string is not a digit. Nevertheless, it is well documented that the ctype functions return TRUE on empty values, so if you're going to use them you have to expect it. Not actually a bug, but a brain-dead feature. -- Chris Snyder http://chxo.com/ From lists at zaunere.com Fri Dec 2 12:17:41 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:17:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <001a01c5f764$4f2ce620$6401a8c0@MZ> Scott Mattocks wrote on Friday, December 02, 2005 11:33 AM: > Chris Shiflett wrote: > > Scott Mattocks wrote: > > > Anyway, the problem is with ctype_digit returning true for null > > > strings. > > > > There is no such thing as a null string, because null is not a string. I > > think you mean the empty string, based on your example: > > Yes. I meant empty string. Sorry. Script and output... $TheString = ''; echo 'Empty String: '; var_dump(ctype_digit($TheString)); $TheString = NULL; echo 'NULL: '; var_dump(ctype_digit($TheString)); ----Output Empty String: bool(false) NULL: bool(false) > > Why would this be considered a bug? > > > > The ctype_digit() function returns true if every character in a string > > is a digit. The length of the string seems like a separate criterion. > > It would be a bug because it doesn't function as one would expect. The > manual says, " Returns TRUE if every character in text is a decimal > digit, FALSE otherwise." Since there are no characters, they cannot be > decimal digits. Therefore, I would expect the "FALSE otherwise" to kick > in. If it said, "Returns FALSE if the string contains non-decimal > characters" I might agree with you. It may just be semantics, but do you > really expect ctype_digit('') to return TRUE? > > Anyway, I decided not to be such a dummy and just downloaded the Windows > version. In 5.1.1 (on Windows at least), ctype_digit('') returns false. So yeah, it appears to be as expected now. However, ctype_digit() is really just a wrapper around the native C functions, so the setlocale() and family of libs are something to consider. The above script I did produces the same output on Fedora and Windows, but man setlocale and man isdigit could also cover it. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Dec 2 13:17:24 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:17:24 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> <439074A7.3070008@php.net> <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <20051202181724.GA9393@panix.com> Hey Scott, et al: On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 12:11:05PM -0500, csnyder wrote: > > Nevertheless, it is well documented that the ctype functions return > TRUE on empty values, so if you're going to use them you have to > expect it. I wouldn't call this well documented. While the sentence "When called with an empty string the result will always be TRUE" appears on the ctype function reference page, http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.ctype.php, who looks at that? This should be stated on each ctype function's page. For example, it's not listed on ctype_digit(), http://www.php.net/ctype_digit. Now Hans' test shows that the behavior isn't what's documented. Seems like some research is in order. Scott, want to go the distance? :) Please? First, look through the cvs commit list / cvs change logs to see if the change in 5.1 was intentional. If it was not, open a bug about the change. Second, check the relevant documentation out from CVS. Adjust the documentation files as needed to explain the state of affairs then make a patch via (cvs diff -u). Put the patch on a website somewhere. Open up a documentation bug pointing to the patch file. To get the CVS sources for the docs... Login: cvs -d :pserver:cvsread at cvs.php.net:/repository login Password is: phpfi Checkout (all on one line): cvs -d :pserver:cvsread at cvs.php.net:/repository checkout phpdoc/en/reference/ctype If you need help understanding DocBook XML, let me know. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From cliff at pinestream.com Fri Dec 2 13:33:22 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:33:22 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <001a01c5f764$4f2ce620$6401a8c0@MZ> Message-ID: <000c01c5f76e$dff64890$0ea8a8c0@cliff> Has anyone tried the PECL input filter extension? Might help. http://pecl.php.net/package/filter -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Hans Zaunere Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 12:18 PM To: 'NYPHP Talk' Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x Scott Mattocks wrote on Friday, December 02, 2005 11:33 AM: > Chris Shiflett wrote: > > Scott Mattocks wrote: > > > Anyway, the problem is with ctype_digit returning true for null > > > strings. > > > > There is no such thing as a null string, because null is not a > > string. I think you mean the empty string, based on your example: > > Yes. I meant empty string. Sorry. Script and output... $TheString = ''; echo 'Empty String: '; var_dump(ctype_digit($TheString)); $TheString = NULL; echo 'NULL: '; var_dump(ctype_digit($TheString)); ----Output Empty String: bool(false) NULL: bool(false) > > Why would this be considered a bug? > > > > The ctype_digit() function returns true if every character in a > > string is a digit. The length of the string seems like a separate > > criterion. > > It would be a bug because it doesn't function as one would expect. The > manual says, " Returns TRUE if every character in text is a decimal > digit, FALSE otherwise." Since there are no characters, they cannot be > decimal digits. Therefore, I would expect the "FALSE otherwise" to > kick in. If it said, "Returns FALSE if the string contains non-decimal > characters" I might agree with you. It may just be semantics, but do > you really expect ctype_digit('') to return TRUE? > > Anyway, I decided not to be such a dummy and just downloaded the > Windows version. In 5.1.1 (on Windows at least), ctype_digit('') > returns false. So yeah, it appears to be as expected now. However, ctype_digit() is really just a wrapper around the native C functions, so the setlocale() and family of libs are something to consider. The above script I did produces the same output on Fedora and Windows, but man setlocale and man isdigit could also cover it. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From scott at crisscott.com Fri Dec 2 14:39:59 2005 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:39:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <20051202181724.GA9393@panix.com> References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> <439074A7.3070008@php.net> <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> <20051202181724.GA9393@panix.com> Message-ID: <4390A30F.2010602@crisscott.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: > Now Hans' test shows that the behavior isn't what's documented. Seems > like some research is in order. Scott, want to go the distance? :) > Please? > > First, look through the cvs commit list / cvs change logs to see if the > change in 5.1 was intentional. If it was not, open a bug about the > change. This was done intentionally by Ilia. The commit can be found here: http://cvs.php.net/co.php/php-src/ext/ctype/ctype.c?r=1.33 > Open up a documentation bug pointing to the patch file. The bug report, along with a link to a patch for the docs, can be found here: http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=35526 -- Scott Mattocks scott at crisscott.com http://www.crisscott.com http://pear.php.net/user/scottmattocks From codebowl at gmail.com Fri Dec 2 14:45:27 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:45:27 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Sudio's Optimizer / PHP 5.1.1 Message-ID: <8d9a42800512021145u5b443948o86afdb3fb50a5b81@mail.gmail.com> i keep getting an error that zend optimizer doesnt work with this version of PHP, can anyone explain why that would be? i have gone into zend studio and went to /lib/Optimizer-2.5.13/ created the php-5.1.x dir and copied the ZendOptimizer.dll from the php-5.0.x directory but it still complains ;( is there something else i need to change in zend studio server? Thanks, -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at zaunere.com Fri Dec 2 14:53:47 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:53:47 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Zend Sudio's Optimizer / PHP 5.1.1 In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512021145u5b443948o86afdb3fb50a5b81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003e01c5f77a$1d649910$6401a8c0@MZ> Joseph, Please do not cross-post between mailing lists. If you need help from a specific list, contact that list only. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com Joseph Crawford wrote on Friday, December 02, 2005 2:45 PM: > i keep getting an error that zend optimizer doesnt work with this version > of PHP, can anyone explain why that would be? > i have gone into zend studio and went to /lib/Optimizer-2.5.13/ created > the php-5.1.x dir and copied the ZendOptimizer.dll from the php-5.0.x > directory but it still complains ;( is there something else i need to > change in zend studio server? > > Thanks, > -- > Joseph Crawford Jr. > Zend Certified Engineer > Codebowl Solutions, Inc. > 1-802-671-2021 > codebowl at gmail.com From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Dec 2 15:43:04 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:43:04 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <4390A30F.2010602@crisscott.com> References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> <439074A7.3070008@php.net> <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> <20051202181724.GA9393@panix.com> <4390A30F.2010602@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <20051202204304.GA5520@panix.com> Hey Scott: On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 02:39:59PM -0500, Scott Mattocks wrote: > The bug report, along with a link to a patch for the docs, can be found > here: http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=35526 YOU DA MAN!!! May I please suggest a few things? The docs generally use the &false; entity instead of FALSE. Seems like an explanation of the pre-5.1 and post-5.1 return values would be most helpful in the returnvalues refsect. I'm trying to think of a good example of where return values have changed over time to see how it's documented there, but I can't recall one right now. The ones thought of so far have changed parameters. Finally, the change needs to be noted in the main chapter reference, phpdoc/en/reference/ctype/reference.xml. Thanks soooo much, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From scott at crisscott.com Fri Dec 2 16:01:39 2005 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:01:39 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <20051202204304.GA5520@panix.com> References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> <439074A7.3070008@php.net> <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> <20051202181724.GA9393@panix.com> <4390A30F.2010602@crisscott.com> <20051202204304.GA5520@panix.com> Message-ID: <4390B633.4060500@crisscott.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: > > May I please suggest a few things? > > The docs generally use the &false; entity instead of > FALSE. Sorry, not used to that one. We don't have that one defined over in the PHP-GTK docs, or at least we don't use it. > > Seems like an explanation of the pre-5.1 and post-5.1 return values would > be most helpful in the returnvalues refsect. I'm trying to think of a > good example of where return values have changed over time to see how it's > documented there, but I can't recall one right now. The ones thought of > so far have changed parameters. I'll leave that one to the pros. I added your suggestion to the bug report. > > Finally, the change needs to be noted in the main chapter reference, > phpdoc/en/reference/ctype/reference.xml. Patch has been updated. Scott From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Dec 2 17:41:06 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:41:06 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] ctype_digit in PHP 5.1.x In-Reply-To: <4390B633.4060500@crisscott.com> References: <43906CDC.9060606@crisscott.com> <439074A7.3070008@php.net> <43907738.20400@crisscott.com> <20051202181724.GA9393@panix.com> <4390A30F.2010602@crisscott.com> <20051202204304.GA5520@panix.com> <4390B633.4060500@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <20051202224106.GA18829@panix.com> Sire: On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 04:01:39PM -0500, Scott Mattocks wrote: > > I'll leave that one to the pros. I added your suggestion to the bug report. Fair enough. > Patch has been updated. Thanks! --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From lists at genoverly.net Sun Dec 4 08:38:01 2005 From: lists at genoverly.net (michael) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:38:01 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] apache Message-ID: <20051204083801.510163b0@wit.genoverly.home> I see apache has released version 2.2 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/new_features_2_2.html Is anyone considering moving up to take advantage of new features? -- Michael From lists at zaunere.com Sun Dec 4 16:57:33 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 16:57:33 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] apache In-Reply-To: <20051204083801.510163b0@wit.genoverly.home> Message-ID: <000301c5f91d$bbac82a0$6401a8c0@MZ> michael wrote on Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:38 AM: > I see apache has released version 2.2 > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/new_features_2_2.html > > Is anyone considering moving up to take advantage of new features? As part of the AMP vertical, ie for running PHP, I'd say no. I don't see any significant features that would be pertinent to a PHP application that would outweigh moving to a new code base. However, over time, I think the shift will be there, especially once PHP TS and related issues are reduced. Even now, in certain configurations of PHP, Apache2/PHP could make sense. That said, outside of PHP - for instance proxies, DAV, etc. - I'd go with Apache 2, but still would give a new release like 2.2 some time. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Dec 5 13:27:33 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 13:27:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] can PHP and Perl share a common log file? Message-ID: Thought experiment: you are using a Perl module called Log::Trivial (http://search.cpan.org/~atrickett/Log-Trivial-0.03/lib/Log/Trivial.pm) to log to a file. It uses flock() internally. You are also using php's native error_log() to write to the same log file. Is this asking for trouble? Does log_error() flock() internally, and will it honor a Perl flock()? I am guessing both flock implementations wrap the same underlying C stuff, about which I know little, hence the question. Thanks. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From michael.southwell at nyphp.org Mon Dec 5 15:03:04 2005 From: michael.southwell at nyphp.org (Michael Southwell) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:03:04 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: group mailing list providers? Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20051205150101.0248a3f0@mail.optonline.net> I have a client with about 200 members currently using Yahoo groups; they want to move away from Yahoo. Has anyone had any experience with Google groups or MSN groups? Michael Southwell, Vice President for Education New York PHP http://www.nyphp.com/training - In-depth PHP Training Courses From amol at hatwar.org Mon Dec 5 15:46:49 2005 From: amol at hatwar.org (Amol Hatwar) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:16:49 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-talk] can PHP and Perl share a common log file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1133815609.15968.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 13:27 -0500, David Mintz wrote: > Thought experiment: you are using a Perl module called Log::Trivial > (http://search.cpan.org/~atrickett/Log-Trivial-0.03/lib/Log/Trivial.pm) to > log to a file. It uses flock() internally. I ain't much of a Perl guru, but flock() is bad for concurrency. For a lot of simultaneous access you'll be drastically reducing performance. > You are also using php's native > error_log() to write to the same log file. Is this asking for trouble? I guess yes. > Does log_error() flock() internally, and will it honor a Perl flock()? No AFAIK, PHP log_error() does an append, but it will honor a Perl flock() where in lies the problem. You can have many concurrent appenders without any locking, atomicty is guranteed courtesy of the file system. But when you have a flock, you can have only one writer. So, if your PERL code doesn't release locks soon enough, your PHP code will wait till the lock is freed, this will unnecessarily reduce response time. If you can get your Perl code to do an append like PHP, you'll get atomic updates without the overhead of locking. What you are suggesting is safe, but at times the contraption may turn out to be slow. *chop* Regards, ah From amol at hatwar.org Mon Dec 5 15:53:33 2005 From: amol at hatwar.org (Amol Hatwar) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:23:33 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: group mailing list providers? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20051205150101.0248a3f0@mail.optonline.net> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20051205150101.0248a3f0@mail.optonline.net> Message-ID: <1133816013.15968.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 15:03 -0500, Michael Southwell wrote: > I have a client with about 200 members currently using Yahoo groups; > they want to move away from Yahoo. Has anyone had any experience > with Google groups or MSN groups? Hmmm... what are the features they *really* need? I really like Yahoo Groups, over MSN and Google. If you are talking plain mailing lists like this one, the GNU Mailman or ezmlm is a great option. For other stuff like community pages, photo sharing etc. you may already have other stuff in PHP/Perl/Python. Or you could try rolling your own code ;). Regards, ah From chsnyder at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 16:43:37 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:43:37 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] can PHP and Perl share a common log file? In-Reply-To: <1133815609.15968.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133815609.15968.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 12/5/05, Amol Hatwar wrote: > What you are suggesting is safe, but at times the contraption may turn > out to be slow. Bonus points for the use of "contraption" here. From chsnyder at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 16:45:08 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:45:08 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: group mailing list providers? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20051205150101.0248a3f0@mail.optonline.net> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20051205150101.0248a3f0@mail.optonline.net> Message-ID: On 12/5/05, Michael Southwell wrote: > I have a client with about 200 members currently using Yahoo groups; > they want to move away from Yahoo. Has anyone had any experience > with Google groups or MSN groups? Sounds like they might need Clew, Michael. Oh well, never mind. Google groups has a great interface if you're a geek. -- Chris Snyder http://chxo.com/ From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Dec 5 16:50:17 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:50:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] can PHP and Perl share a common log file? In-Reply-To: References: <1133815609.15968.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, csnyder wrote: > On 12/5/05, Amol Hatwar wrote: > > > What you are suggesting is safe, but at times the contraption may turn > > out to be slow. > > Bonus points for the use of "contraption" here. Hmmm, are we casting aspersions on my contraption here (-; ? Maybe I'll just abandon the shared logfile idea -- not that much of an upside to it anyway. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From rolan at omnistep.com Mon Dec 5 17:13:27 2005 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:13:27 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] can PHP and Perl share a common log file? In-Reply-To: References: <1133815609.15968.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4394BB87.50703@omnistep.com> David Mintz wrote: >Hmmm, are we casting aspersions on my contraption here (-; ? Maybe I'll >just abandon the shared logfile idea -- not that much of an upside to it >anyway. > > > You might want to pass the task on to syslog. http://us2.php.net/syslog http://www.sunsite.ualberta.ca/Documentation/Misc/perl-5.6.0/ext/Sys/Syslog/Syslog.html ~Rolan From papillion at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 22:45:47 2005 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:45:47 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question Message-ID: <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> Hello Everyone, I know this is off-topic but this problem is driving me totally nuts and I am hoping somone here will take a moment to answer this post: I have a db table called 'sisters'. I am wanting to select ONE RANDOM record from that table but I want to exclude a specific record from that random selection. Here is the sql I'm using: SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email !='email_address_to_exclude' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1" However, every time I insert my WHERE clause, I am told by MySQL that there is an error in my syntax. I've replaced the != with NOT and it makes no difference. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! Anthony Papillion Phone: (918) 926-0139 ICQ: 96-698-595 CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD? http://www.one.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com Mon Dec 5 22:50:56 2005 From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:50:56 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question References: <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002c01c5fa18$4398be90$1519a8c0@ced> IS NOT LIKE ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Papillion To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 10:45 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question Hello Everyone, I know this is off-topic but this problem is driving me totally nuts and I am hoping somone here will take a moment to answer this post: I have a db table called 'sisters'. I am wanting to select ONE RANDOM record from that table but I want to exclude a specific record from that random selection. Here is the sql I'm using: SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email !='email_address_to_exclude' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1" However, every time I insert my WHERE clause, I am told by MySQL that there is an error in my syntax. I've replaced the != with NOT and it makes no difference. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! Anthony Papillion Phone: (918) 926-0139 ICQ: 96-698-595 CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD? http://www.one.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From papillion at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 23:00:18 2005 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:00:18 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question In-Reply-To: <002c01c5fa18$4398be90$1519a8c0@ced> References: <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> <002c01c5fa18$4398be90$1519a8c0@ced> Message-ID: <5458518f0512052000u7863da21tfc59a3cb86d42fe9@mail.gmail.com> Ahhh, thank you very much! On 12/5/05, CED wrote: > > IS NOT LIKE > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anthony Papillion > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2005 10:45 PM > *Subject:* [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question > > Hello Everyone, > > I know this is off-topic but this problem is driving me totally nuts and I > am hoping somone here will take a moment to answer this post: > > I have a db table called 'sisters'. I am wanting to select ONE RANDOM > record from that table but I want to exclude a specific record from that > random selection. Here is the sql I'm using: > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email !='email_address_to_exclude' ORDER BY > RAND() LIMIT 1" > > However, every time I insert my WHERE clause, I am told by MySQL that > there is an error in my syntax. I've replaced the != with NOT and it makes > no difference. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? > > Thanks! > Anthony Papillion > Phone: (918) 926-0139 > ICQ: 96-698-595 > > CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD? > http://www.one.org > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > -- Anthony Papillion Phone: (918) 926-0139 ICQ: 96-698-595 CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD? http://www.one.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at zaunere.com Mon Dec 5 23:04:17 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 23:04:17 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question In-Reply-To: <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001e01c5fa1a$21dca850$6401a8c0@MZ> > I know this is off-topic but this problem is driving me totally nuts and > I am hoping somone here will take a moment to answer this post: Not so much - but there is also a MySQL-SIG - http://www.nyphp.org/lists > I have a db table called 'sisters'. I am wanting to select ONE RANDOM > record from that table but I want to exclude a specific record from that > random selection. Here is the sql I'm using: > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email !='email_address_to_exclude' ORDER BY > RAND() LIMIT 1" The typical SQL syntax for not-equal is <> (that's less-than followed by greater-than). [re-adjusting no quoting] > > IS NOT LIKE In this case, MySQL will interpret NOT LIKE the same as <> assuming there are no special chars. So it's important to note if there are any type of wildcards. For instance, a percent sign will cause your expression to act differently in a variation of LIKE vs. a basic string match using a variation of an equal sign. And not all databases (IIRC) do this, so you should always use a strict match unless you want wildcards to sneak in. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Dec 5 23:04:57 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 23:04:57 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question In-Reply-To: <002c01c5fa18$4398be90$1519a8c0@ced> <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> References: <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> <002c01c5fa18$4398be90$1519a8c0@ced> <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com> Hey Anthony: On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 09:45:47PM -0600, Anthony Papillion wrote: > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email !='email_address_to_exclude' ORDER BY > RAND() LIMIT 1" You'll want to use <>. On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 10:50:56PM -0500, CED wrote: > IS NOT LIKE LIKE is for wildcard matching and when inverted is NOT LIKE. Anthony, and everyone, the manual is your friend. There's a whole section on comparison operators: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/comparison-operators.html --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com Mon Dec 5 23:14:35 2005 From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 23:14:35 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question References: <5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com><002c01c5fa18$4398be90$1519a8c0@ced><5458518f0512051945y285cfb20l86b655dc646bee9@mail.gmail.com> <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com> Message-ID: <001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> IS NOT LIKE will function completely fine within the code he displayed below, see Hans' reply. Cheers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Convissor" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question Hey Anthony: On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 09:45:47PM -0600, Anthony Papillion wrote: > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email !='email_address_to_exclude' ORDER BY > RAND() LIMIT 1" You'll want to use <>. On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 10:50:56PM -0500, CED wrote: > IS NOT LIKE LIKE is for wildcard matching and when inverted is NOT LIKE. Anthony, and everyone, the manual is your friend. There's a whole section on comparison operators: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/comparison-operators.html --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From papillion at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 23:36:15 2005 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:36:15 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmmm...still not quite there :-( Message-ID: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to everyone who responded to my SQL syntax question. However, for some strange reason, I am STILL getting an error. So far, I've modified my SQL statement the following ways: SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email != 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1 SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email NOT 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1 SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email NOT LIKE 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1 SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email IS NOT LIKE 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1 SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email <> 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1 None, of these statements work and yet they all look (at least to me) syntactically correct. Could this be a problem with my db server?? Anthony -- Anthony Papillion Phone: (918) 926-0139 ICQ: 96-698-595 CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD? http://www.one.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolan at omnistep.com Mon Dec 5 23:56:35 2005 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:56:35 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmmm...still not quite there :-( In-Reply-To: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43951A03.3000903@omnistep.com> Anthony Papillion wrote: > Thanks to everyone who responded to my SQL syntax question. However, > for some strange reason, I am STILL getting an error. So far, I've > modified my SQL statement the following ways: > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email != 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() > LIMIT 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email NOT 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() > LIMIT 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email NOT LIKE 'email address' ORDER BY > RAND() LIMIT 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email IS NOT LIKE 'email address' ORDER BY > RAND() LIMIT 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email <> 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() > LIMIT 1 > > None, of these statements work and yet they all look (at least to me) > syntactically correct. Could this be a problem with my db server?? > > Anthony > try select * from sisters where email <> 'email address' order by rand(unix_timestamp()) limit 1; However, this page mentions that using rand may not be the best idea. http://www.titov.net/2005/09/21/do-not-use-order-by-rand-or-how-to-get-random-rows-from-table/ ~Rolan From arzala at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 00:10:45 2005 From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:40:45 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmmm...still not quite there :-( In-Reply-To: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You seems have problem with your db server or sql execution mechanism. Because all queries except 2nd & 4th are correct and will run successfully on mysql DB. However results may vary from query to query. Thanks Anirudh Zala On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:06:15 +0530, Anthony Papillion wrote: > Thanks to everyone who responded to my SQL syntax question. However, for > some strange reason, I am STILL getting an error. So far, I've modified my > SQL statement the following ways: > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email != 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email NOT 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT > 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email NOT LIKE 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() > LIMIT 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email IS NOT LIKE 'email address' ORDER BY > RAND() LIMIT 1 > > SELECT * FROM sisters WHERE email <> 'email address' ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1 > > None, of these statements work and yet they all look (at least to me) > syntactically correct. Could this be a problem with my db server?? > > Anthony > > -- > Anthony Papillion > Phone: (918) 926-0139 > ICQ: 96-698-595 > > CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD? > http://www.one.org > -- ----------------------------------------------------- Anirudh Zala (Production Manager) ASPL, http://www.aspl.in Ph: +91 281 245 1894 arzala at gmail.com ----------------------------------------------------- From dmintz at davidmintz.org Tue Dec 6 09:35:42 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 09:35:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmmm...still not quite there :-( In-Reply-To: References: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Anirudh Zala wrote: > You seems have problem with your db server or sql execution mechanism. > Because all queries except 2nd & 4th are correct and will run > successfully on mysql DB. When my keyboard layout is US English International (with dead keys) I have sometimes gotten weird but unprintable characters near the quotes in my SQL queries while working a terminal window with the mysql client. The query appears syntactically flawless and yet it fails. I retype -- carefully -- the quoted parts, and then it works. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Tue Dec 6 10:36:33 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:36:33 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question In-Reply-To: <001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com> <001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> Message-ID: <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com> Hi, uh, whatever your name is: On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 11:14:35PM -0500, CED wrote: > IS NOT LIKE will function completely fine within the code he displayed > below, see Hans' reply. First, "IS" should not be in there. The operator is "NOT LIKE". Second, just because something works doesn't make it the right way to do something. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com Tue Dec 6 12:39:49 2005 From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:39:49 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com><001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com> Message-ID: <004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> IS I'm afraid may not be 'needed' but it is cerainly easier to read. Dan. Analyze and solute that. ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Convissor" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question Hi, uh, whatever your name is: On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 11:14:35PM -0500, CED wrote: > IS NOT LIKE will function completely fine within the code he displayed > below, see Hans' reply. First, "IS" should not be in there. The operator is "NOT LIKE". Second, just because something works doesn't make it the right way to do something. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 17:45:12 2005 From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:45:12 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question In-Reply-To: <004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com> <001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com> <004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> Message-ID: <4b1887110512061445m6e6310bfh70e261dd3ef41909@mail.gmail.com> Hi Consult, > Analyze and solute that. ;) You mean solve? ;-) /jeff On 12/6/05, CED wrote: > IS I'm afraid may not be 'needed' but it is cerainly easier to read. Dan. > Analyze and solute that. ;) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Convissor" > To: "NYPHP Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:36 AM > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question > > > Hi, uh, whatever your name is: > > On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 11:14:35PM -0500, CED wrote: > > IS NOT LIKE will function completely fine within the code he displayed > > below, see Hans' reply. > > First, "IS" should not be in there. The operator is "NOT LIKE". Second, > just because something works doesn't make it the right way to do > something. > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- --- Jeff Loiselle Web Developer, Musician, and Observer http://jeff.loiselles.com "In America, through pressure of conformity, there is freedom of choice, but nothing to choose from." - Peter Ustinov From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com Tue Dec 6 17:54:25 2005 From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:54:25 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com><001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com><004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> <4b1887110512061445m6e6310bfh70e261dd3ef41909@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002b01c5fab8$02cca660$1519a8c0@ced> No, my background is medical, I want him to make it solute. ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Loiselle" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question Hi Consult, > Analyze and solute that. ;) You mean solve? ;-) /jeff On 12/6/05, CED wrote: > IS I'm afraid may not be 'needed' but it is cerainly easier to read. Dan. > Analyze and solute that. ;) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Convissor" > To: "NYPHP Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:36 AM > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Quick MySQL Syntax Question > > > Hi, uh, whatever your name is: > > On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 11:14:35PM -0500, CED wrote: > > IS NOT LIKE will function completely fine within the code he displayed > > below, see Hans' reply. > > First, "IS" should not be in there. The operator is "NOT LIKE". Second, > just because something works doesn't make it the right way to do > something. > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- --- Jeff Loiselle Web Developer, Musician, and Observer http://jeff.loiselles.com "In America, through pressure of conformity, there is freedom of choice, but nothing to choose from." - Peter Ustinov _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From suzerain at suzerain.com Wed Dec 7 04:16:46 2005 From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Antony Vose) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:16:46 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] gift certificate codes In-Reply-To: <002b01c5fab8$02cca660$1519a8c0@ced> References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com><001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com><004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> <4b1887110512061445m6e6310bfh70e261dd3ef41909@mail.gmail.com> <002b01c5fab8$02cca660$1519a8c0@ced> Message-ID: Hi there: I built and maintain a shopping site. They've asked me to implement a gift certificate feature, and I was wondering what strategies people use to create gift certificate codes which can be emailed? Just initially researching it, and though I'd toss it out for the excellent minds here to chime in on if they've already had good solutions; need to obviously make sure we have a unique code for each one and so forth. Thanks much, -- Marc Antony Vose http://www.suzerain.com/ Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley From cliff at pinestream.com Wed Dec 7 07:27:11 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 07:27:11 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] gift certificate codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c5fb29$8c5af7d0$0ea8a8c0@cliff> You may want to look at Oscommerce or Zen Cart to see how they do it. -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Marc Antony Vose Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 4:17 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] gift certificate codes Hi there: I built and maintain a shopping site. They've asked me to implement a gift certificate feature, and I was wondering what strategies people use to create gift certificate codes which can be emailed? Just initially researching it, and though I'd toss it out for the excellent minds here to chime in on if they've already had good solutions; need to obviously make sure we have a unique code for each one and so forth. Thanks much, -- Marc Antony Vose http://www.suzerain.com/ Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From scott at crisscott.com Wed Dec 7 08:33:42 2005 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:33:42 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] gift certificate codes In-Reply-To: References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com><001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com><004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> <4b1887110512061445m6e6310bfh70e261dd3ef41909@mail.gmail.com> <002b01c5fab8$02cca660$1519a8c0@ced> Message-ID: <4396E4B6.6040603@crisscott.com> Marc Antony Vose wrote: > Hi there: > > I built and maintain a shopping site. They've asked me to implement > a gift certificate feature, and I was wondering what strategies > people use to create gift certificate codes which can be emailed? Check with the payment gateway that you are using. Some of them have this type of thing already set up. You can use a slightly modified API to create and redeem the codes. I know that CyberSource offers gift certificates an I am sure that others do to. http://www.cybersource.com/products_and_services/electronic_payments/gift_and_prepaid_certificates/ -- Scott Mattocks scott at crisscott.com http://www.crisscott.com http://pear.php.net/user/scottmattocks From cliff at pinestream.com Wed Dec 7 09:16:00 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (cliff) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:16:00 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] gift certificate codes In-Reply-To: <4396E4B6.6040603@crisscott.com> References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com><001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com><004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> <4b1887110512061445m6e6310bfh70e261dd3ef41909@mail.gmail.com> <002b01c5fab8$02cca660$1519a8c0@ced> <4396E4B6.6040603@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <20051207141600.M74244@pinestream.com> Why would you need a third party? Security? Fault tolerance. Why not just store gift certificate values & IDs in a table in the shopping cart? A unique gift certificate row id can be easily turned into a hash. And InnoBD can be used to ensure the integrity of balance transactions. On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:33:42 -0500, Scott Mattocks wrote > Marc Antony Vose wrote: > > Hi there: > > > > I built and maintain a shopping site. They've asked me to implement > > a gift certificate feature, and I was wondering what strategies > > people use to create gift certificate codes which can be emailed? > > Check with the payment gateway that you are using. Some of them have > this type of thing already set up. You can use a slightly modified > API to create and redeem the codes. I know that CyberSource offers > gift certificates an I am sure that others do to. > > http://www.cybersource.com/products_and_services/electronic_payments/gift_and _prepaid_certificates/ > > -- > Scott Mattocks > scott at crisscott.com > http://www.crisscott.com > http://pear.php.net/user/scottmattocks > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org -- Pinestream Communications, Inc. Publisher of Semiconductor Times & Telecom Trends 52 Pine Street, Weston, MA 02493 USA Tel: 781.647.8800, Fax: 781.647.8825, www.pinestream.com From scott at crisscott.com Wed Dec 7 09:30:36 2005 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:30:36 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] gift certificate codes In-Reply-To: <20051207141600.M74244@pinestream.com> References: <20051206040456.GA28617@panix.com><001801c5fa1b$91333380$1519a8c0@ced> <20051206153633.GA3764@panix.com><004101c5fa8c$0eb33c40$1519a8c0@ced> <4b1887110512061445m6e6310bfh70e261dd3ef41909@mail.gmail.com> <002b01c5fab8$02cca660$1519a8c0@ced> <4396E4B6.6040603@crisscott.com> <20051207141600.M74244@pinestream.com> Message-ID: <4396F20C.5060504@crisscott.com> cliff wrote: > Why would you need a third party? Security? Fault tolerance. Why not just > store gift certificate values & IDs in a table in the shopping cart? A > unique gift certificate row id can be easily turned into a hash. And InnoBD > can be used to ensure the integrity of balance transactions. If you are already using a third party to process credit card payments it is easier to use their gift certificate interface than it is to create your own. Instead of creating new tables in the database, a new class to verify and process the codes, and a backend to manage the codes for the customer support team, you just add a check for the payment type and then call a different method. Debugging is a breeze because you only have a few new lines, whereas with a home grown system you need to do some serious testing to make sure that your system is secure and functions properly. With someone else's service you might even be able to be up and running with a few days left for the last minute holiday shoppers. Also, it probably won't cost near as much to use a provider that you are already working with. There will probably be no or little set up fee. Of course there will be a small fee per transaction but it will take a few years before those add up the development costs it will take to build your own system. Scott From cliff at pinestream.com Wed Dec 7 10:11:04 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (cliff) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:11:04 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards Message-ID: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> If anyone isn't familiar with this, it's worth a read: http://www.dagbladet.no/development/phpcodingstandard/ Nice PHP Coding Standard Guide. I love the part about no magic #s. I would make it required reading for any new team member. My only issue is preceding a Class property name with m as in $mClassProperty. m makes me think of method. I'd prefer p for property. Thoughts? Cliff Hirsch From dcech at phpwerx.net Wed Dec 7 10:43:17 2005 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:43:17 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> Message-ID: <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> cliff wrote: > If anyone isn't familiar with this, it's worth a read: > > http://www.dagbladet.no/development/phpcodingstandard/ > > Nice PHP Coding Standard Guide. I love the part about no magic #s. I would > make it required reading for any new team member. > > My only issue is preceding a Class property name with m as in > $mClassProperty. m makes me think of method. I'd prefer p for property. > Thoughts? I would be very hesitant to recommend this standard. I do have a particular hate for StudlyCaps so it turned me off right there, however the fact is that it hasn't been revised since 2003 and is quite out of date. There are several references to the old-style $HTTP_*_VARS arrays, and no mention of using the superglobal arrays, magic quotes, no discussion of single vs double quotes, etc. That said, many of the more general observations about things such as commenting code and using a source management system are very useful, I don't know what I would do without SVN (or CVS) for any decent sized project. A more esoteric complaint would be that I prefer tabs over spaces, because it allows the developer to control the way code is indented (2 vs 4 vs 8 etc spaces), and avoids the all-too-common situation of the indenting being off by 1 space. That said, tabs should only be used before any text on a line, trailing comments or spacing of assignment blocks should be indented with spaces to maintain the layout independent of tab spacing settings. WRT tags, I have embraced a practice I first heard of on this list, which is to leave out the end ?> tag and instead use a standard comments line like: // end of script followed by a single newline (unix-style \n of course) This avoids the situation where the trailing whitespace after the ?> in one of your included files sends output to the browser and breaks all your header() and cookie() calls. The final comment I would give is that the authors refer to double-quotes as 'magic quotes' throughout the document. Considering the special meaning of this phrase in PHP this is a very poor choice of wording. Dan From codebowl at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 10:51:13 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:51:13 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512070751r55386d5ai49796ed2e2ee1821@mail.gmail.com> Class Names - Use upper case letters as word separators, lower case for the rest of a word - First character in a name is upper case - No underbars ('_') underbar? is that like underwire? or did they mean underscore? -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From codebowl at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 10:52:32 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:52:32 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Address Removal From List? Message-ID: <8d9a42800512070752l779f6358j1b522200da44e160@mail.gmail.com> Guys, I keep getting emails bounced back to me because an address doesnt exist From: *MAILER-DAEMON at mlm.mariotti.lan *should they be removed?* * -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shiflett at php.net Wed Dec 7 11:15:09 2005 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:15:09 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512070751r55386d5ai49796ed2e2ee1821@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> <8d9a42800512070751r55386d5ai49796ed2e2ee1821@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43970A8D.5010500@php.net> Joseph Crawford wrote: > underbar? is that like underwire? or did they mean underscore? I think that's British for underscore. :-) Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ From cliff at pinestream.com Wed Dec 7 11:24:36 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (cliff) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:24:36 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <43970A8D.5010500@php.net> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> <8d9a42800512070751r55386d5ai49796ed2e2ee1821@mail.gmail.com> <43970A8D.5010500@php.net> Message-ID: <20051207162436.M77740@pinestream.com> I thought underbar was Sweet Polly Purebred's stud muffin? Or is it just a deoderant? On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:15:09 -0500, Chris Shiflett wrote > Joseph Crawford wrote: > > underbar? is that like underwire? or did they mean underscore? > > I think that's British for underscore. :-) > > Chris > > -- > Chris Shiflett > Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy > http://brainbulb.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org From mark at wildwoodinc.com Wed Dec 7 11:32:29 2005 From: mark at wildwoodinc.com (Mark Lassoff) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:32:29 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <20051207162436.M77740@pinestream.com> Message-ID: >From Dictionary.com: Underbar: To line; to guard; to face; as, cloth of gold underborne with blue tinsel. How seasonal! Oh.. wait.. that's underbear... Never mind then. Mark Lassoff Web Developer Wildwood Inc. From aaron at aarond.com Wed Dec 7 12:25:03 2005 From: aaron at aarond.com (aaron) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:25:03 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] virus scans and php Message-ID: <43971AEF.8040708@aarond.com> I'm working on an Image Database where public users would submit images through an html form then the images and related form info would be sent to a private network. The info then goes to an Oracle db, and based on the unique id's given to the records in the db I rename the images and place in a temp folder. The issue of running some type of virus scan outside of php file checks on the images came up in a meeting and I wasn't sure what to say. Is there some type of way a virus scan software can talk to php? Or another way to handle virus scans and file uploads? We have win2k servers and PHP 4.3.1 thanks, Aaron D. From chsnyder at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 13:36:09 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 13:36:09 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] virus scans and php In-Reply-To: <43971AEF.8040708@aarond.com> References: <43971AEF.8040708@aarond.com> Message-ID: On 12/7/05, aaron wrote: > I'm working on an Image Database where public users would submit images > through an html form then the images and related form info would be sent > to a private network. The info then goes to an Oracle db, and based on > the unique id's given to the records in the db I rename the images and > place in a temp folder. > > The issue of running some type of virus scan outside of php file checks > on the images came up in a meeting and I wasn't sure what to say. Is > there some type of way a virus scan software can talk to php? Or another > way to handle virus scans and file uploads? > > We have win2k servers and PHP 4.3.1 > > thanks, > Aaron D. Seems like you could pass to ClamAV for processing... except I don't know if that's Linux only. Then again, image handling libraries try very hard not to execute anything embedded in the image, so your only concern is someone downloading an infected image, changing the extension to .exe, and then double-clicking it. Seriously, if embedded viruses are a problem, we're all screwed. It's not irresponsible to say "not my job" in this case. -- Chris Snyder http://chxo.com/ From yournway at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 13:38:46 2005 From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 18:38:46 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] virus scans and php In-Reply-To: References: <43971AEF.8040708@aarond.com> Message-ID: http://www.clamav.net/binary.html#pagestart It's not as straightforward as on linux, but it works. On 07/12/05, csnyder wrote: > > On 12/7/05, aaron wrote: > > I'm working on an Image Database where public users would submit images > > through an html form then the images and related form info would be sent > > to a private network. The info then goes to an Oracle db, and based on > > the unique id's given to the records in the db I rename the images and > > place in a temp folder. > > > > The issue of running some type of virus scan outside of php file checks > > on the images came up in a meeting and I wasn't sure what to say. Is > > there some type of way a virus scan software can talk to php? Or another > > way to handle virus scans and file uploads? > > > > We have win2k servers and PHP 4.3.1 > > > > thanks, > > Aaron D. > > > Seems like you could pass to ClamAV for processing... except I don't > know if that's Linux only. > > Then again, image handling libraries try very hard not to execute > anything embedded in the image, so your only concern is someone > downloading an infected image, changing the extension to .exe, and > then double-clicking it. > > Seriously, if embedded viruses are a problem, we're all screwed. It's > not irresponsible to say "not my job" in this case. > > > -- > Chris Snyder > http://chxo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Alberto dos Santos Consultor em TI IT Consultant http://www.yournway.com A internet ? sua maneira. The Internet your own way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aaron at aarond.com Wed Dec 7 15:05:11 2005 From: aaron at aarond.com (aaron) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:05:11 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] virus scans and php In-Reply-To: References: <43971AEF.8040708@aarond.com> Message-ID: <43974077.9080106@aarond.com> Thanks, although it does seem to just be for *nix. >Seriously, if embedded viruses are a problem, we're all screwed. It's >not irresponsible to say "not my job" in this case. Yea I hear ya, but the boss man wants virus scan. I may have to have a temp wait time & directory to allow McAfee or some other crappy application to scan the directory before moving the files. Aaron D. Alberto dos Santos wrote: > http://www.clamav.net/binary.html#pagestart > > It's not as straightforward as on linux, but it works. > > On 07/12/05, *csnyder* > wrote: > > On 12/7/05, aaron > wrote: > > I'm working on an Image Database where public users would submit > images > > through an html form then the images and related form info would > be sent > > to a private network. The info then goes to an Oracle db, and > based on > > the unique id's given to the records in the db I rename the > images and > > place in a temp folder. > > > > The issue of running some type of virus scan outside of php file > checks > > on the images came up in a meeting and I wasn't sure what to > say. Is > > there some type of way a virus scan software can talk to php? Or > another > > way to handle virus scans and file uploads? > > > > We have win2k servers and PHP 4.3.1 > > > > thanks, > > Aaron D. > > > Seems like you could pass to ClamAV for processing... except I don't > know if that's Linux only. > > Then again, image handling libraries try very hard not to execute > anything embedded in the image, so your only concern is someone > downloading an infected image, changing the extension to .exe, and > then double-clicking it. > > Seriously, if embedded viruses are a problem, we're all screwed. It's > not irresponsible to say "not my job" in this case. > > > -- > Chris Snyder > http://chxo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > > > > -- > Alberto dos Santos > Consultor em TI > IT Consultant > > http://www.yournway.com > A internet ? sua maneira. > The Internet your own way. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcech at phpwerx.net Wed Dec 7 15:21:36 2005 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:21:36 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] virus scans and php In-Reply-To: <43974077.9080106@aarond.com> References: <43971AEF.8040708@aarond.com> <43974077.9080106@aarond.com> Message-ID: <43974450.2070207@phpwerx.net> aaron wrote: > Thanks, although it does seem to just be for *nix. Uhhh, guess you didn't see these: http://www.clamav.net/binary.html#pagestart > # MS Windows (native) > * A native port of libclamav, clamscan, freshclam and sigtool is being developed at http://www.bransoft.com/clamav.html. Another native port is available at http://oss.netfarm.it/clamav/. > > # MS Windows (Cygwin) > * ClamAV is a part of the official Cygwin port repository. > > # MS Windows (cygwin.dll based) > * All major features of ClamAV are implemented under Win32 using the Cygwin compatibility layer. You can download a cygwin port of ClamAV from: http://www.sosdg.org/clamav-win32/index.php The latest development version of ClamAV for Windows is available at http://clamav.or.id/snapshot/ > A package including a cygwin port of ClamAV with a nice GUI written in C++ and Python is available at: http://www.clamwin.net. ClamWin allows to select and scan a folder or file, configure settings and update virus databases. It also features a Windows Taskbar tray icon and a context menu handler for Windows Explorer which installs Scan into the right-click explorer menu for files and folders. > > # MS Windows (Interix) > * A binary package of ClamAV for Interix is now being maintained at http://www.interopsystems.com/tools/warehouse.htm Between those options you should have no trouble getting command line scanning with clamav running on your windoze boxen. Dan From lists at zaunere.com Wed Dec 7 15:24:34 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:24:34 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Address Removal From List? In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512070752l779f6358j1b522200da44e160@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004601c5fb6c$3dc445c0$6801a8c0@MZ> Joseph Crawford wrote on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:53 AM: > Guys, > > I keep getting emails bounced back to me because an address doesnt exist > > From: MAILER-DAEMON at mlm.mariotti.lan > > should they be removed? I haven't seen this bounce - will remove if I get a bounce now. If others continue to see it over the next few days, please contact me offlist. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From codebowl at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 16:19:08 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:19:08 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Address Removal From List? In-Reply-To: <004601c5fb6c$3dc445c0$6801a8c0@MZ> References: <8d9a42800512070752l779f6358j1b522200da44e160@mail.gmail.com> <004601c5fb6c$3dc445c0$6801a8c0@MZ> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512071319h1a062af8vbf47289ff12c86d2@mail.gmail.com> i keep getting these ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your message To: Subject: Re: [PHP-DB] Google Style Search Results Sent: Wed Dec 07 09:14:14 2005 did not reach the following recipient(s): briody at itx.de on Wed Dec 07 09:14:14 2005 The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to. Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to find out the correct address. Final-Recipient: RFC822; briody at itx.de Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 X-Supplementary-Info: grisu.itxnet.local X-Display-Name: briody at itx.de ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mlm.mariotti.lan. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) --- Below this line is a copy of the message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.knight at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 16:46:04 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:46:04 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Address Removal From List? In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512071319h1a062af8vbf47289ff12c86d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512070752l779f6358j1b522200da44e160@mail.gmail.com> <004601c5fb6c$3dc445c0$6801a8c0@MZ> <8d9a42800512071319h1a062af8vbf47289ff12c86d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512071346v128e3ce0xf93af70b69341cba@mail.gmail.com> I think your first clue would be in the subject, sounds like you are barking up the wrong list On 12/7/05, Joseph Crawford wrote: > i keep getting these > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Your message > > To: > Subject: Re: [PHP-DB] Google Style Search Results > Sent: Wed Dec 07 09:14:14 2005 > > > did not reach the following recipient(s): > briody at itx.de on Wed Dec 07 09:14:14 2005 > > The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message > was sent to. Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient > directly to find out the correct address. > > > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; briody at itx.de > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.1 > X-Supplementary-Info: grisu.itxnet.local > X-Display-Name: briody at itx.de > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mlm.mariotti.lan. > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following > addresses. > This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. > > : > Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) > > --- Below this line is a copy of the message. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > Joseph Crawford Jr. > Zend Certified Engineer > Codebowl Solutions, Inc. > 1-802-671-2021 > codebowl at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > From codebowl at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 17:02:06 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 17:02:06 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Address Removal From List? In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910512071346v128e3ce0xf93af70b69341cba@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512070752l779f6358j1b522200da44e160@mail.gmail.com> <004601c5fb6c$3dc445c0$6801a8c0@MZ> <8d9a42800512071319h1a062af8vbf47289ff12c86d2@mail.gmail.com> <2ca9ba910512071346v128e3ce0xf93af70b69341cba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512071402m8105b7bp73e303c2c6aba8fa@mail.gmail.com> DOH sorry one is from php-db the othe ris from nyphp though -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gatzby3jr at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 18:29:45 2005 From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 18:29:45 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <6232723418405924871@unknownmsgid> References: <20051207162436.M77740@pinestream.com> <6232723418405924871@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <29da5d150512071529jd347d2ex90bd5d74ee8e338b@mail.gmail.com> Although I haven't attempted to create a PEAR project or work on one in anyway I've always followed their coding standards. http://pear.php.net/manual/en/standards.php On 12/7/05, Mark Lassoff wrote: > > > >From Dictionary.com: > > Underbar: To line; to guard; to face; as, cloth of gold underborne with > blue > tinsel. > > How seasonal! Oh.. wait.. that's underbear... Never mind then. > > > Mark Lassoff > Web Developer > Wildwood Inc. > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Brian O'Connor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randalrust at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 19:30:33 2005 From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:30:33 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB Message-ID: I have inherited a .NET app that I am converting over to PHP/MySQL. The first big hurdle is to convert the database. I have setup SQL Server Express 2005 and done a restore of the DB, so I can at least see the structure and the data. I am trying to use ADODB to connect to the database, but with no luck. I set SQL server up so that it uses Windows Authentication when I login (no username/password) required. The server name is VAIOLAPTOP\SQLEXPRESS. I have a database class that I use to create the connection (see below). I'm sure that whatever it is I don't have correct is simple, but I cannot find anything via Google that is providing any answers, so any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA. conn =& ADONewConnection('mssql'); if($ip=$_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']=='127.0.0.1'){ $conn=$this->conn->PConnect('localhost','','','ossrc'); } else { $conn=$this->conn->PConnect('localhost','','','rsquared_ossrc'); } return $conn; } } ?> -- Randal Rust www.r2communications.com From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Wed Dec 7 20:08:30 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 20:08:30 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 07:30:33PM -0500, Randal Rust wrote: > I have inherited a .NET app that I am converting over to PHP/MySQL. > The first big hurdle is to convert the database. > > I have setup SQL Server Express 2005 and done a restore of the DB, so > I can at least see the structure and the data. > > I am trying to use ADODB to connect to the database, but with no luck. > I set SQL server up so that it uses Windows Authentication when I > login (no username/password) required. Well, that's probably your problem right there. You're running SQL Server (just kidding). Your problem is probably the "Windows Authentication" setting. Where are you running your PHP scripts from? If it's via the web server, I certainly hope the account the web server is running as doesn't have permission to get in. I have my SQL Server 2000 Authentication set to "SQL Server and Windows." This way I can manually specify the user name and password when calling mssql_connect() in my scripts. Regardless of the authentication mechanism, you'll need to have the users registerd in the SQL Server's "Logins." --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From randalrust at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 21:15:08 2005 From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 21:15:08 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB In-Reply-To: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> References: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> Message-ID: On 12/7/05, Daniel Convissor wrote: > Where are you running your PHP scripts from? If it's via the web server, > I certainly hope the account the web server is running as doesn't have > permission to get in. Yes, I am running it from the webserver, which is just running locally on my laptop. > Regardless of the authentication mechanism, you'll need to have the users > registerd in the SQL Server's "Logins." Bear with me, this is my first time ever even seeing SQL server. There is a menu item on the tree menu for the database that says 'Users.' I tried to add a new user, and it won't let me. There are several users already listed, so I'm assuming that I need to get a valid username and password from the person who gave me the database. Once I do that though, don't I still need to enable the mssql extension in the php.ini file? -- Randal Rust www.r2communications.com From ps at pswebcode.com Wed Dec 7 21:40:00 2005 From: ps at pswebcode.com (Peter Sawczynec) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 21:40:00 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Quick HTTP/Meta/PHP/JavaScript Question Message-ID: <000701c5fba0$b26b4200$68e4a144@Rubicon> Using PHP and/or JavaScript is there a technique allowing me to display the meta data (for the user to study) of the page that they just loaded in their own browser? Warmest regards, Peter Sawczynec, Technology Director PSWebcode ps at pswebcode.com 718.796.1951 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.knight at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 22:34:43 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 21:34:43 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Quick HTTP/Meta/PHP/JavaScript Question In-Reply-To: <000701c5fba0$b26b4200$68e4a144@Rubicon> References: <000701c5fba0$b26b4200$68e4a144@Rubicon> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512071934pd948461yc75e05bebbcd39d@mail.gmail.com> A combination of the Filesystem functions http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.filesystem.php and $_SERVER['SCRIPT_FILENAME'] should get you what you're looking for. On 12/7/05, Peter Sawczynec wrote: > > Using PHP and/or JavaScript is there a technique allowing me to display the > meta data (for the user to study) of the page that they just loaded in their > own browser? > > Warmest regards, > > Peter Sawczynec, > Technology Director > PSWebcode > ps at pswebcode.com > 718.796.1951 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 23:00:55 2005 From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 23:00:55 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <29da5d150512071529jd347d2ex90bd5d74ee8e338b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051207162436.M77740@pinestream.com> <6232723418405924871@unknownmsgid> <29da5d150512071529jd347d2ex90bd5d74ee8e338b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b1887110512072000p4d0c40ecx186beea52a80d41e@mail.gmail.com> I suppose it's worth mentioning that George Schlossnagle's book "Advanced PHP" (mentioned 9,431 times on this list) also has some great programming style suggestions, but its not really a set standard. --- Jeff Loiselle Web Developer, Musician, and Observer http://jeff.loiselles.com From arzala at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 23:07:23 2005 From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:37:23 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: I assume we need to create a general purpose coding standard that can be helpful to member of this group and other as well. We can receive comments, suggestion and input of all members who wants to contribute. After reviewing all input, we can prepare nice looking coding standard and can place somewhere on Nyphp.org. I assume it can be helpful for other programming languages as well. Hans, any comments? Thanks, Anirudh Zala On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:13:17 +0530, Dan Cech wrote: > cliff wrote: >> If anyone isn't familiar with this, it's worth a read: >> >> http://www.dagbladet.no/development/phpcodingstandard/ >> >> Nice PHP Coding Standard Guide. I love the part about no magic #s. I would >> make it required reading for any new team member. >> >> My only issue is preceding a Class property name with m as in >> $mClassProperty. m makes me think of method. I'd prefer p for property. >> Thoughts? > > I would be very hesitant to recommend this standard. I do have a > particular hate for StudlyCaps so it turned me off right there, however > the fact is that it hasn't been revised since 2003 and is quite out of date. > > There are several references to the old-style $HTTP_*_VARS arrays, and > no mention of using the superglobal arrays, magic quotes, no discussion > of single vs double quotes, etc. > > That said, many of the more general observations about things such as > commenting code and using a source management system are very useful, I > don't know what I would do without SVN (or CVS) for any decent sized > project. > > A more esoteric complaint would be that I prefer tabs over spaces, > because it allows the developer to control the way code is indented (2 > vs 4 vs 8 etc spaces), and avoids the all-too-common situation of the > indenting being off by 1 space. That said, tabs should only be used > before any text on a line, trailing comments or spacing of assignment > blocks should be indented with spaces to maintain the layout independent > of tab spacing settings. > > WRT tags, I have embraced a practice I first heard of on this > list, which is to leave out the end ?> tag and instead use a standard > comments line like: > > // end of script > > followed by a single newline (unix-style \n of course) > > This avoids the situation where the trailing whitespace after the ?> in > one of your included files sends output to the browser and breaks all > your header() and cookie() calls. > > The final comment I would give is that the authors refer to > double-quotes as 'magic quotes' throughout the document. Considering > the special meaning of this phrase in PHP this is a very poor choice of > wording. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- ----------------------------------------------------- Anirudh Zala (Production Manager) ASPL, http://www.aspl.in Ph: +91 281 245 1894 arzala at gmail.com ----------------------------------------------------- From hendler at simmons.edu Thu Dec 8 00:28:04 2005 From: hendler at simmons.edu (Jonathan) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 00:28:04 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] problems loading a custom, shared extension In-Reply-To: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <5458518f0512052036v4c1eb3bex8b9ffffb030b35a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4397C464.8080406@simmons.edu> I need help figuring out an error when writing/loading a custom, shared extension (.so) for PHP. Could anyone help or recommend good links, books, or other mailing lists for developing in C to extend PHP? I have "Building Custom PHP Extensions" by Blake Schwendiman and "Advanced PHP Programming" by George Schlossnagle (9432 times mentioned on this list). Both excellent books which got me started, but looking for more information. I've been around the Zend Dev site and http://talks.php.net/ (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/ as well) but I am stuck. Thank you. Background: ------------- I am writing a script in C that uses shared memory and/or memory-mapped files to (attempt to) speed up some frequently used PHP functionality. I need to test the speed of the extension (using some apache "ab" scripts) in environments where the extension will be loaded via the ini rather than being compiled into php. Summary of Problem: ---------- The extension will compile into PHP 4.4.1 and runs without issue as a compiled-in extension. I can build it into a shared object using phpize for both 4.4.1 source and the 4.3.11 binaries. I get no errors running phpize. In both the PHP.INI context and dl() context the only error message is ( it can, at least, find the .so): "PHP Warning: Unknown(): Invalid library (maybe not a PHP library) 'my_ext.so' in Unknown on line 0" Details: ----------- Linux, Fedora Core 4. GCC 4.0.x dl() fails to load the .so in CLI with php of the same version (perhaps it fails because it is already an internal extension?) dl() AND loading through the INI fail in a server (Apache 2.0.x) with a different version of php (4.3.11) . php.ini. (I run phpize that is included with the precompiled 4.3.11 and added the 3 headers it needs. ) Only error message is at load time ( it can, at least, find the .so): "PHP Warning: Unknown(): Invalid library (maybe not a PHP library) 'my_ext.so' in Unknown on line 0" My only guesses are that : - something do with my m4 file - maybe the PHP_EXTENSION macro since it wasn't present in my m4 file but PHP_NEW_EXTENSION is. Also I see differences in documentation about PHP_SUBST(xxx_SHARED_LIBADD) from winstead's talk: PHP_SUBST(TIDY_SHARED_LIBADD) PHP_EXTENSION(tidy, $ext_shared) dnl PHP_NEW_EXTENSION(tidy, tidy.c, $ext_shared) "PHP_EXTENSION(modulename, [shared])This macro is a /must/ to call for PHP to configure your extension. You can supply a second argument in addition to your module name, indicating whether you intend compilation as a shared module. This will result in a definition at compile time for your source as COMPILE_DL_." - something to do with dl() not allowing certain kinds of functionality of an .so - also in the m4 file I am not clear whether to use --enable or --with . I have several source files, but using enable works fine with built in extension. - the standard distro doesn't let me run buildconf (even with --force it fails), so will my updated m4 get put into configure? - the .so has to be compiled for each and every version of PHP (doesn't seem right ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at zaunere.com Thu Dec 8 08:23:03 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:23:03 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Workshop: How we built Flickr Message-ID: <00ac01c5fbfa$858d1a60$6401a8c0@MZ> This commercial orientated post has been approved by the New York PHP Community Board. It looks like an interesting event so take a look. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com > Building Enterprise Web Apps on a Budget - How we built Flickr > Taught by Cal Henderson (lead developer at Flickr.com) > Thursday 16th Feb, 2006 > Center for Architecture, New York. > > A one-day practical workshop that will give you everything you need to > build a powerful PHP enterprise-level web application on a small budget. > This is a unique opportunity to learn from one of the best web developers > in the industry, Cal Henderson, the senior developer of the world-famous > flickr.com. > > For more details and the schedule in detail click here: > http://www.carsonworkshops.com From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Dec 8 11:19:49 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:19:49 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB In-Reply-To: References: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> Message-ID: <20051208161949.GA15654@panix.com> Hi Randal: On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 09:15:08PM -0500, Randal Rust wrote: > > is a menu item on the tree menu for the database that says 'Users.' I The way MS SQL works is similar to MySQL. The top level of the security system are SQL SERVER "Logins". This controls who can even connect to the server. Then at the DATABASE level, you use the "Users" section to determine which of the server "Logins" are allowed to connect to that particular database. > Once I do that though, don't I still need to enable the mssql > extension in the php.ini file? Who said you didn't? :) --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From randalrust at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 19:21:48 2005 From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:21:48 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB In-Reply-To: <20051208161949.GA15654@panix.com> References: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> <20051208161949.GA15654@panix.com> Message-ID: On 12/8/05, Daniel Convissor wrote: > The way MS SQL works is similar to MySQL. Yeah, it's just that I've never used anything but MySQL, so it's difficult to try to get things done quickly when some things are different (terminology, UI, etc.). Long story short, here is my process: 1. Query data in MSSQL 2. Copy and Paste into OpenOffice spreadsheet 3. Save as .csv 4. Import into MySQL Thanks for answering my questions though. It was very helpful. -- Randal Rust www.r2communications.com From codebowl at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 19:26:38 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:26:38 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB In-Reply-To: References: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> <20051208161949.GA15654@panix.com> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512081626h54f80f67te09e7f6a86508b80@mail.gmail.com> Is this php app going to be running on a windows machine? I had a client who had a site on a linux machine and was communicating to a remote mssql database and it was nearly impossible to get it to work, i fought and fought until i found FreeTDS. Using FreeTDS locally i got it to work but trying to find a shared host to install FreeTDS was impossible. The only way to get this to work for them was for them to get a dedicated machine and for that matter to make things easy they got a windows machine. I had no problem communication from windows to windows using the mssql_* php functions. -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amol at hatwar.org Thu Dec 8 19:26:32 2005 From: amol at hatwar.org (Amol Hatwar) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:56:32 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: <1134087992.3479.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 09:37 +0530, Anirudh Zala wrote: > I assume we need to create a general purpose coding standard that can be helpful to member of this group and other as well. *chop* The good thing about standards is that there's so many of them to choose from. And new ones come up every now and then ;). The standard as it isn't really as important as getting your dev team to follow it. Most standards do end up getting altered, to become another standard for a particular project. By far, I found the PEAR coding guidelines most widely followed. But do we really need another standard? Regards, ah From randalrust at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 19:29:24 2005 From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:29:24 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512081626h54f80f67te09e7f6a86508b80@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> <20051208161949.GA15654@panix.com> <8d9a42800512081626h54f80f67te09e7f6a86508b80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12/8/05, Joseph Crawford wrote: > Is this php app going to be running on a windows machine? No, but it's really irrelevant. I'm converting the MSSQL DB to MySQL. The whole issue was in needing to query and extract the data from the original database. I figured it all out. -- Randal Rust www.r2communications.com From codebowl at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 19:32:54 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:32:54 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Connect to MSSQL Database with PHP and ADODB In-Reply-To: References: <20051208010830.GA10183@panix.com> <20051208161949.GA15654@panix.com> <8d9a42800512081626h54f80f67te09e7f6a86508b80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512081632g4b984547y218cb108cc011faf@mail.gmail.com> glad you figured it out, i know you were trying to query that's why i asked if you were hosting the php script on linux trying to communicate with mssql because that is impossible without FreeTDS. -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.rundlett at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 21:39:25 2005 From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 21:39:25 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Quick HTTP/Meta/PHP/JavaScript Question In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910512071934pd948461yc75e05bebbcd39d@mail.gmail.com> References: <000701c5fba0$b26b4200$68e4a144@Rubicon> <2ca9ba910512071934pd948461yc75e05bebbcd39d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5e2aaca40512081839oa19af7dibf4000e024f05d0d@mail.gmail.com> The Javascript function getElementsByTagName('meta') will get an array of all the meta tags in the current webpage. Take the following javascript, make it the 'href' attribute of a hyperlink in your document, and you have a bookmarklet that will do the trick. javascript:metaTags=document.getElementsByTagName('meta');total='

MetaTags:

    ';for(i=0;iname:%C2%A0'+metaTags[i].name+'
    content:%C2%A0'+metaTags[i].content+'';}total=total+'
';checkWindow=window.open('','metacheck','scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,location=no,menubar=yes,toolbar=yes,width=640,height=300');checkWindow.document.write(total); From morgan at forsalebyowner.com Fri Dec 9 09:46:15 2005 From: morgan at forsalebyowner.com (Morgan Craft) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:46:15 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <1134087992.3479.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> <1134087992.3479.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <439998B7.8020905@forsalebyowner.com> What about Hungarian notation? I had not heard of it till I recently started my new job. I find the naming convention useful, especially when all our database fields have the corresponding notations. I'm sure this coding standard could be used for other languages that do not require data types to be declared. But is this something that should be included within the PHP coding standard? Hungarian Notation(wiki): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation Amol Hatwar wrote: >On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 09:37 +0530, Anirudh Zala wrote: > > >>I assume we need to create a general purpose coding standard that can be helpful to member of this group and other as well. >> >> > >*chop* > >The good thing about standards is that there's so many of them to choose >from. And new ones come up every now and then ;). > >The standard as it isn't really as important as getting your dev team to >follow it. Most standards do end up getting altered, to become another >standard for a particular project. > >By far, I found the PEAR coding guidelines most widely followed. But do >we really need another standard? > >Regards, > >ah > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org > > > > From ldhasson at us.ibm.com Fri Dec 9 10:48:52 2005 From: ldhasson at us.ibm.com (Laurent Hasson) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 10:48:52 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Laurent Hasson/Hawthorne/IBM is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 2005.12.09 and will not return until 2006.01.03. I am on vacation for the rest of the year. If there is an emergency, call me on my cell phone (in blue pages) From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 14:18:59 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:18:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <439998B7.8020905@forsalebyowner.com> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> <1134087992.3479.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <439998B7.8020905@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: On 12/9/05, Morgan Craft wrote: > What about Hungarian notation? I had not heard of it till I recently > started my new job. I find the naming convention useful, especially > when all our database fields have the corresponding notations. I'm sure > this coding standard could be used for other languages that do not > require data types to be declared. But is this something that should be > included within the PHP coding standard? > > Hungarian Notation(wiki): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation > Gack! Not in my code, thanks. Names are names, not type declarations. But if you like it, more power to ya. I hope you're consistent, and have a well-defined list of types in your coding standard so that whatever poor bloke has to change the code in 5 years can figure out what all the notations mean. From jeff.knight at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 14:42:36 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 13:42:36 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> <1134087992.3479.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <439998B7.8020905@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512091142v71525012n83bce1940579ab5e@mail.gmail.com> If it doesn't follow a well recorded, defined list of types, it isn't "Hungarian". On one hand, I've often found it useful to distinguish between parameters ($p_) and local vairables ($l_) in my functions and methods, on the other hand, it kind of defeats the purpose of auto-complete, since all your variable names begin with a small set of notations. On some occasions I've even found it useful to go so far as to add notation for keys ($k_) and values ($v_) in my longer loops, but that is definitelly not "Hungarian". I can't really ever recall a time where the type hinting character ever helped me out, but maybe someday... That being said, type and scope hinting in a name can be useful, and as far as I'm concerned are as much an indication of what a thing is as some arbitrary label, in fact, it can often make your names shorter and more to the point. For example compare taking an input array of $p_aNames, looping through them as $v_sName and building some local array for return in $l_aNames against using longer, studlyier names for the "Name" to differentiate them, such as $NamesInput, $NameFromLoop, $NamesOutput. Typically, on a project, I wait until it is late and I've had a few beers to start naming things anyway, so anyone following my example is probably in deep trouble. On 12/9/05, csnyder wrote: > On 12/9/05, Morgan Craft wrote: > > What about Hungarian notation? I had not heard of it till I recently > > started my new job. I find the naming convention useful, especially > > when all our database fields have the corresponding notations. I'm sure > > this coding standard could be used for other languages that do not > > require data types to be declared. But is this something that should be > > included within the PHP coding standard? > > > > Hungarian Notation(wiki): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation > > > > Gack! Not in my code, thanks. Names are names, not type declarations. > > But if you like it, more power to ya. I hope you're consistent, and > have a well-defined list of types in your coding standard so that > whatever poor bloke has to change the code in 5 years can figure out > what all the notations mean. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > From bpang at bpang.com Fri Dec 9 14:55:23 2005 From: bpang at bpang.com (Brian Pang) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:55:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: thehostingcompany.us ??? Message-ID: <58183.127.0.0.1.1134158123.squirrel@www.bpang.com> Is anyone affiliated with thehostingcompany.us still on this list? I need a response to my open support tickets, asap! Sorry for the OT post. From cliff at pinestream.com Fri Dec 9 15:20:41 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 15:20:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910512091142v71525012n83bce1940579ab5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005601c5fcfe$07278390$0ea8a8c0@cliff> I've heard of Beer Goggles, but Beer Notation is new to me. Although I have been know to try Jack Daniels Notation -- and it doesn't even have to be late. -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Knight Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:43 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards If it doesn't follow a well recorded, defined list of types, it isn't "Hungarian". On one hand, I've often found it useful to distinguish between parameters ($p_) and local vairables ($l_) in my functions and methods, on the other hand, it kind of defeats the purpose of auto-complete, since all your variable names begin with a small set of notations. On some occasions I've even found it useful to go so far as to add notation for keys ($k_) and values ($v_) in my longer loops, but that is definitelly not "Hungarian". I can't really ever recall a time where the type hinting character ever helped me out, but maybe someday... That being said, type and scope hinting in a name can be useful, and as far as I'm concerned are as much an indication of what a thing is as some arbitrary label, in fact, it can often make your names shorter and more to the point. For example compare taking an input array of $p_aNames, looping through them as $v_sName and building some local array for return in $l_aNames against using longer, studlyier names for the "Name" to differentiate them, such as $NamesInput, $NameFromLoop, $NamesOutput. Typically, on a project, I wait until it is late and I've had a few beers to start naming things anyway, so anyone following my example is probably in deep trouble. On 12/9/05, csnyder wrote: > On 12/9/05, Morgan Craft wrote: > > What about Hungarian notation? I had not heard of it till I > > recently started my new job. I find the naming convention useful, > > especially when all our database fields have the corresponding > > notations. I'm sure this coding standard could be used for other > > languages that do not require data types to be declared. But is > > this something that should be included within the PHP coding > > standard? > > > > Hungarian Notation(wiki): > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation > > > > Gack! Not in my code, thanks. Names are names, not type declarations. > > But if you like it, more power to ya. I hope you're consistent, and > have a well-defined list of types in your coding standard so that > whatever poor bloke has to change the code in 5 years can figure out > what all the notations mean. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From jeff.knight at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 15:32:09 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:32:09 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <005601c5fcfe$07278390$0ea8a8c0@cliff> References: <2ca9ba910512091142v71525012n83bce1940579ab5e@mail.gmail.com> <005601c5fcfe$07278390$0ea8a8c0@cliff> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512091232j45caaa68h19f2f5517ce25388@mail.gmail.com> In the end, coding standards are much like the vermouth in Winston Churchill's Martini recipe: 6 parts gin Bottle of dry vermouth Cocktail olive Shake gin in a cocktail shaker with cracked ice. Strain into a chilled cocktail glass and look at the bottle of vermouth. Garnish with olive. You should be familiar with them, understand what they are trying to convey, and know when to keep them the hell out of your cocktail. From andrew at plexpod.com Fri Dec 9 23:08:34 2005 From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:08:34 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] "Calling" an object Message-ID: <20051210040834.GM14182@desario.homelinux.net> I want to reproduce the equivalent of Python's magic __call__ method in PHP 5. More or less this might look like: class foo { function __call__() { return "bar"; } } $o = new foo(); $s = $o(); // $s = "bar" But of course, that doesn't work. Using __toString() doesn't quite cut it as that only works w/ echo & print. Ideas? Regards, Andrew -- Andrew Yochum Plexpod andrew at plexpod.com 718-360-0879 From yournway at gmail.com Sat Dec 10 04:43:34 2005 From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:43:34 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910512091232j45caaa68h19f2f5517ce25388@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ca9ba910512091142v71525012n83bce1940579ab5e@mail.gmail.com> <005601c5fcfe$07278390$0ea8a8c0@cliff> <2ca9ba910512091232j45caaa68h19f2f5517ce25388@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 09/12/05, Jeff Knight wrote: > > In the end, coding standards are much like the vermouth in Winston > Churchill's Martini recipe: > 6 parts gin > Bottle of dry vermouth > Cocktail olive > > Shake gin in a cocktail shaker with cracked ice. Strain into a chilled > cocktail glass and look at the bottle of vermouth. Garnish with olive. > > You should be familiar with them, understand what they are trying to > convey, and know when to keep them the hell out of your cocktail. Brilliant! One for me, please. And now a little OT: As anyone been to Peter Cafe Sport in Azores? They have the most famous Gin in sailors history. -- Alberto dos Santos Consultor em TI IT Consultant http://www.yournway.com A internet ? sua maneira. The Internet your own way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cliff at pinestream.com Sat Dec 10 16:02:41 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:02:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] if statement expression evaluation question Message-ID: <000001c5fdcd$0fe38860$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop> I have been looking through the PHP manual for a definitive answer regarding expression evaluation in an if statement, specifically regarding the following: $array = array('a' => 'alpha', 'b' => 'beta', 'c' => 'charlie'); if (isset($array['d']) && ($array['d'] === 'delta')) echo 'Its a wonderful life'; This is ok, but the following will generate a parse error: if (($array['d'] === 'delta') && isset($array['d'])) Obviously the first example doesn't evaluate the 2nd expression, eliminating the non-existent key parsing error. My question is, can I rely on this? Is the precedence and abortion of the balance of the if expression guaranteed in this and future releases of PHP? Cliff Hirsch From dcech at phpwerx.net Sat Dec 10 16:51:41 2005 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:51:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] if statement expression evaluation question In-Reply-To: <000001c5fdcd$0fe38860$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop> References: <000001c5fdcd$0fe38860$0ca8a8c0@CHirschLaptop> Message-ID: <439B4DED.5090306@phpwerx.net> Cliff, Cliff Hirsch wrote: > I have been looking through the PHP manual for a definitive answer > regarding expression evaluation in an if statement, specifically > regarding the following: > > $array = array('a' => 'alpha', 'b' => 'beta', 'c' => 'charlie'); > if (isset($array['d']) && ($array['d'] === 'delta')) > echo 'Its a wonderful life'; > > This is ok, but the following will generate a parse error: > > if (($array['d'] === 'delta') && isset($array['d'])) > > Obviously the first example doesn't evaluate the 2nd expression, > eliminating the non-existent key parsing error. My question is, can I > rely on this? Is the precedence and abortion of the balance of the if > expression guaranteed in this and future releases of PHP? This is known as 'short-circuit' evaluation, and AFAIK it is definitely reliable, because it is the most efficient way to evaluate the statement so there would be no reason to modify the behaviour. http://www.php.net/expressions Dan From mikko.rantalainen at peda.net Mon Dec 12 06:36:07 2005 From: mikko.rantalainen at peda.net (Mikko Rantalainen) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:36:07 +0200 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> <1134087992.3479.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <439998B7.8020905@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: <439D60A7.1050503@peda.net> csnyder wrote: > On 12/9/05, Morgan Craft wrote: > >>What about Hungarian notation? I had not heard of it till I recently >>Hungarian Notation(wiki): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation > > Gack! Not in my code, thanks. Names are names, not type declarations. Learn the difference between "Apps Hungarian" and "Systems Hungarian". I'd support former but there's no way I'd use latter for anything. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html "But then something kind of wrong happened. The dark side took over Hungarian Notation. Nobody seems to know why or how, but it appears that the documentation writers on the Windows team inadvertently invented what came to be known as Systems Hungarian." Interesting reading - a bit longish, though. -- Mikko From ken at secdat.com Mon Dec 12 07:33:09 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:33:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: <439D60A7.1050503@peda.net> References: <20051207151104.M35903@pinestream.com> <43970315.4060505@phpwerx.net> <1134087992.3479.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <439998B7.8020905@forsalebyowner.com> <439D60A7.1050503@peda.net> Message-ID: <34692.38.117.147.25.1134390789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Nice read, thanks for the link. > csnyder wrote: >> On 12/9/05, Morgan Craft wrote: >> >>>What about Hungarian notation? I had not heard of it till I recently >>>Hungarian Notation(wiki): >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation >> >> Gack! Not in my code, thanks. Names are names, not type declarations. > > Learn the difference between "Apps Hungarian" and "Systems > Hungarian". I'd support former but there's no way I'd use latter for > anything. > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html > > "But then something kind of wrong happened. > > The dark side took over Hungarian Notation. > > Nobody seems to know why or how, but it appears that the > documentation writers on the Windows team inadvertently invented > what came to be known as Systems Hungarian." > > Interesting reading - a bit longish, though. > > -- > Mikko > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From lance.listserv at optimost.com Mon Dec 12 12:37:36 2005 From: lance.listserv at optimost.com (Lance Lovette) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:37:36 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/MySQL Migration Path Message-ID: <200512121736.jBCHaaME012121@ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com> I'm currently running PHP 4.3 and MySQL 4.0. I'm planning my migration path to PHP 5 and MySQL 5. The question is, can I migrate each product individually, and if so, which should/must be migrated first. For stability reasons, I'd rather not have to migrate both at the same time, and I'd really prefer to upgrade MySQL first. Can PHP 4.3 connect to MySQL 5 at all? Has anyone else been down this path? Thanks! Lance From lists at zaunere.com Mon Dec 12 23:23:46 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:23:46 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/MySQL Migration Path In-Reply-To: <200512121736.jBCHaaME012121@ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <002301c5ff9d$03c7a0d0$6401a8c0@MZ> Lance Lovette wrote on Monday, December 12, 2005 12:38 PM: > I'm currently running PHP 4.3 and MySQL 4.0. I'm planning my migration > path to PHP 5 and MySQL 5. The question is, can I migrate each product > individually, and if so, which should/must be migrated first. For > stability reasons, I'd rather not have to migrate both at the same time, > and I'd really prefer to upgrade MySQL first. Can PHP 4.3 connect to > MySQL 5 at all? Has anyone else been down this path? Yes - and it's a very delicate path. Without knowing anything about your application, I'd lean towards upgrading PHP first. Focus on the application code first - it's what does the work; the database will continue to serve data, regardless. In addition, MySQL 5.0 requires new client libs for the most part, of which PHP 4.3 isn't always the most comfortable with and the new object model (among other things) in PHP 5 may through your application into some unexpected behavior. As a first step, in a development environment, upgrade to PHP 5.1 and test, test, test your application against a database of the same schema and version. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From lists at zaunere.com Tue Dec 13 07:51:08 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:51:08 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties Message-ID: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> >From NYCBUG - > Interesting article. . . > > http://businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051213_042973.htm --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Tue Dec 13 19:07:38 2005 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:07:38 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> Message-ID: <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> "Java is so nineties" I'd just like to say that I own that phrase, as I said it on this very list earlier this summer and was even taken to task for it. -- Mitch, Internet Visionary! ;-) From rotsen at gmail.com Tue Dec 13 19:30:49 2005 From: rotsen at gmail.com (Nestor) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:30:49 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Is that because java salaries are in the nineties ($90K) :-) On 12/13/05, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > "Java is so nineties" > > I'd just like to say that I own that phrase, as I said it on this very > list earlier this summer and was even taken to task for it. > > -- Mitch, Internet Visionary! ;-) > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > From jonbaer at jonbaer.com Tue Dec 13 20:27:26 2005 From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:27:26 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Propel/Creole/Qcodo vs. Upcoming Zend Framework Message-ID: <2E169EFF-258B-4282-A639-BA6E7D035AFF@jonbaer.com> Greetings ... Im returning back from legacy Java hell and catching up on PHP5/ MySQL5 and have an ORM question ... was recently looking at a few options for an upcoming project and looked over some pretty cool stuff on phpdb.org until I ran into Qcodo which was also pretty cool/ slick, alot quicker w/ less XML bloat and setup, but then I caught the Zend webcast and trying to figure out if it might be worth it to hold off a tad bit till some "Z"APIs come out before setting all of this up. (And if there is anything else recommended I should look at). Thanks! - Jon From yournway at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 05:43:56 2005 From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:43:56 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Propel/Creole/Qcodo vs. Upcoming Zend Framework In-Reply-To: <2E169EFF-258B-4282-A639-BA6E7D035AFF@jonbaer.com> References: <2E169EFF-258B-4282-A639-BA6E7D035AFF@jonbaer.com> Message-ID: Hey Jon. Have you read this? http://www.qcodo.com/documentation/article.php/6 Also in the forums there are 2 or 3 threads that will enlighten you, because Mike Ho works closely with Zend and has some good insights. Like this one: http://www.qcodo.com/forums/topic.php/7 HTH, if not drop a line on the forums and you will be surprised by the extent of Mike's answers about his baby qcodo. Cheers, On 14/12/05, Jon Baer wrote: > > Greetings ... > > Im returning back from legacy Java hell and catching up on PHP5/ > MySQL5 and have an ORM question ... was recently looking at a few > options for an upcoming project and looked over some pretty cool > stuff on phpdb.org until I ran into Qcodo which was also pretty cool/ > slick, alot quicker w/ less XML bloat and setup, but then I caught > the Zend webcast and trying to figure out if it might be worth it to > hold off a tad bit till some "Z"APIs come out before setting all of > this up. (And if there is anything else recommended I should look at). > > Thanks! > > - Jon > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Alberto dos Santos Consultor em TI IT Consultant http://www.yournway.com A internet ? sua maneira. The Internet your own way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com Wed Dec 14 10:01:25 2005 From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:25 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Propel/Creole/Qcodo vs. Upcoming Zend Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2E169EFF-258B-4282-A639-BA6E7D035AFF@jonbaer.com> Message-ID: <43A033C5.6040200@caseysoftware.com> On that note... I did an interview with Mike last week on CodeSnipers: http://codesnipers.com/?q=node/187 The depth of his answers was pretty impressive and clarified some things for me. I hope others do/will find it useful! keith Alberto dos Santos wrote: > Hey Jon. > Have you read this? http://www.qcodo.com/documentation/article.php/6 > Also in the forums there are 2 or 3 threads that will enlighten you, > because Mike Ho works closely with Zend and has some good insights. > Like this one: http://www.qcodo.com/forums/topic.php/7 > HTH, if not drop a line on the forums and you will be surprised by the > extent of Mike's answers about his baby qcodo. -- D. Keith Casey Jr. CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC http://CaseySoftware.com From morgan at forsalebyowner.com Wed Dec 14 10:04:02 2005 From: morgan at forsalebyowner.com (Morgan Craft) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:04:02 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> When I first moved to New York I listed with a recruiting agency and the recruiter I was working with told me she had never heard of PHP and said that there were no jobs for php-developers and JAVA was by far a better programming language. Of course I had no problem finding php jobs on various websites and had two jobs offers before she had even managed to contact me about an interview. I feel like emailing her the link. Nestor wrote: >Is that because java salaries are in the nineties ($90K) > >:-) > >On 12/13/05, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > >>"Java is so nineties" >> >>I'd just like to say that I own that phrase, as I said it on this very >>list earlier this summer and was even taken to task for it. >> >>-- Mitch, Internet Visionary! ;-) >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk Mailing List >>AMP Technology >>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.nyphp.org >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org > > > > From krook at us.ibm.com Wed Dec 14 10:29:11 2005 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:29:11 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: > When I first moved to New York I listed with a recruiting > agency and the > recruiter I was working with told me she had never heard > of PHP and said > that there were no jobs for php-developers and JAVA was by > far a better > programming language. Of course I had no problem finding > php jobs on > various websites and had two jobs offers before she had > even managed to > contact me about an interview. I feel like emailing her the link. When I was about to move to NYC in mid-2000 I spoke with a head hunter just before the bubble burst and asked him what the hot technologies were. He told me that he had just placed two PHP developers to the highest paying jobs he'd ever arranged. That was the first I ever heard of PHP and bought my first book a few hours later. :) Daniel Krook, Content Tools Developer Global Production Services - Tools, ibm.com http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ http://bookmarks.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ From randalrust at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 10:30:30 2005 From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:30:30 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: On 12/14/05, Morgan Craft wrote: > JAVA was by far a better programming language. The company that I work for is primarily a Java shop. The global HR director sent out an email the other day regarding some new jobs that were available. One of the requirements was something called JAVA SCRIPT. There are a lot of people, especially in the public sector environment, who still think that Java is king, and couldn't tell you the difference between Java and Javascript. -- Randal Rust www.r2communications.com From codebowl at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 15:28:01 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:28:01 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Googl Results Layout Message-ID: <8d9a42800512141228q451b75a6q4c401845a6857097@mail.gmail.com> Guys, A client of mine recently asked how they could get results like this in google http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=craftster&btnG=Google+Search Look at the first result, they have links to thier blog, picture gallery, etc.. Is that something you have to setup in google or is that based on the description tag, which for that site i see to be Thanks, -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolan at omnistep.com Wed Dec 14 16:02:19 2005 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:02:19 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Googl Results Layout In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512141228q451b75a6q4c401845a6857097@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512141228q451b75a6q4c401845a6857097@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43A0885B.6010107@omnistep.com> I think you enter that information into google base. ~Rolan Joseph Crawford wrote: > Guys, > > A client of mine recently asked how they could get results like this > in google > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=craftster&btnG=Google+Search > > > Look at the first result, they have links to thier blog, picture > gallery, etc.. Is that something you have to setup in google or is > that based on the > description tag, which for that site i see to be > From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com Wed Dec 14 16:46:08 2005 From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:46:08 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Googl Results Layout In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512141228q451b75a6q4c401845a6857097@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512141228q451b75a6q4c401845a6857097@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26871-69057@sneakemail.com> Google Base, which is already the largest spam dump since Froogle. Make a faux blog for your commercial website, and viola, Google promotes it. Add fake "user galleries" that are simply your own product images, and Google promotes it. Everybody knows that user-contributed "classifieds" are an AdSense magnet. Add those, too. It does require someone taking ownership of the site, which assigns an IP etc. which Google can then use to tie websites together, uncover link networks and the like, so I can assume the spaminess won't last forever. But then again, Google Base may not last forever, either. Your client should tread lightly in the SEO world right now.... there is plenty of baiting going on. -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com Joseph Crawford codebowl-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: > Guys, > > A client of mine recently asked how they could get results like this > in google > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=craftster&btnG=Google+Search > > > Look at the first result, they have links to thier blog, picture > gallery, etc.. Is that something you have to setup in google or is > that based on the > description tag, which for that site i see to be > >"Craftster.org Picture Hosting" /> >"description" content="Craftster.org Classifieds" / >> > > > > Thanks, > -- > Joseph Crawford Jr. > Zend Certified Engineer > Codebowl Solutions, Inc. > 1-802-671-2021 > codebowl at gmail.com From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com Wed Dec 14 16:53:35 2005 From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:53:35 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> Randal Rust randalrust-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: >On 12/14/05, Morgan Craft wrote: > > > >>JAVA was by far a better programming language. >> >> > >The company that I work for is primarily a Java shop. The global HR >director sent out an email the other day regarding some new jobs that >were available. One of the requirements was something called JAVA >SCRIPT. > >There are a lot of people, especially in the public sector >environment, who still think that Java is king, and couldn't tell you >the difference between Java and Javascript. > >-- >Randal Rust >www.r2communications.com > > PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. JAVA is a serious professional language capable of enterprise applications, not just web sites. It is too hard for most script programmers. Therefore they also have JAVA SCRIPT, which is like a lightweight JAVA, made for script coders (like PHP coders who have graduated to something more serious, but aren't yet ready for the complexity of JAVA). Right? -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com From codebowl at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 16:55:40 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:55:40 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Googl Results Layout In-Reply-To: <26871-69057@sneakemail.com> References: <8d9a42800512141228q451b75a6q4c401845a6857097@mail.gmail.com> <26871-69057@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512141355n2011f180g6f5c3134a84b1466@mail.gmail.com> John, Please contact me off list or at 802-671-2021 Thanks, -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fields at hedge.net Wed Dec 14 16:56:36 2005 From: fields at hedge.net (Adam Fields) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:56:36 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20051214215636.GE22026@lola.aquick.org> On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 01:53:35PM -0800, inforequest wrote: > PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. > JAVA is a serious professional language capable of enterprise > applications, not just web sites. It is too hard for most script > programmers. > Therefore they also have JAVA SCRIPT, which is like a lightweight JAVA, > made for script coders (like PHP coders who have graduated to something > more serious, but aren't yet ready for the complexity of JAVA). > > Right? What? No. Java and Javascript have nothing to do with each other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javascript -- - Adam ** Expert Technical Project and Business Management **** System Performance Analysis and Architecture ****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ] [ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog [ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos [ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ].............Wiki [ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links From randalrust at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 16:56:54 2005 From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:56:54 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On 12/14/05, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote: > PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. > Therefore they also have JAVA SCRIPT, which is like a lightweight JAVA, > made for script coders (like PHP coders who have graduated to something > more serious, but aren't yet ready for the complexity of JAVA). No, they actually meant Javascript. The guy doesn't know the difference. Neither have any of the people in my company to whom I have reported to over the years. There is this thought pattern the the company that developers who know Java know everything. This is a prime example of just how wrong that train of thought is. -- Randal Rust www.r2communications.com From morgan at forsalebyowner.com Wed Dec 14 17:04:27 2005 From: morgan at forsalebyowner.com (Morgan Craft) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:04:27 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <43A096EB.2030703@forsalebyowner.com> I've never thought java was anymore difficult than php. In fact JAVA was the first programming language I learned in college in my introductory computer sciences courses before moving on to C. I picked up PHP because it seemed like a simple and fast web development language that gave me the flexibility to communicate with MySQL and Flash Actionscript. And JAVA and Javascript are nothing alike. Javascript was made by someone at Netscape, not Sun. And it wasn't even called Javascript at first. Bleh, I could go on and on about the difference but I have work to do. I do enjoy the irony. Randal makes a jest about people not understanding the difference between Javascript/java and someone had to illustrate the point for us. *bravo* inforequest wrote: >Randal Rust randalrust-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: > > > >>On 12/14/05, Morgan Craft wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>JAVA was by far a better programming language. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>The company that I work for is primarily a Java shop. The global HR >>director sent out an email the other day regarding some new jobs that >>were available. One of the requirements was something called JAVA >>SCRIPT. >> >>There are a lot of people, especially in the public sector >>environment, who still think that Java is king, and couldn't tell you >>the difference between Java and Javascript. >> >>-- >>Randal Rust >>www.r2communications.com >> >> >> >> >PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. >JAVA is a serious professional language capable of enterprise >applications, not just web sites. It is too hard for most script >programmers. >Therefore they also have JAVA SCRIPT, which is like a lightweight JAVA, >made for script coders (like PHP coders who have graduated to something >more serious, but aren't yet ready for the complexity of JAVA). > >Right? > >-=john andrews >http://www.seo-fun.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org > > > > From krook at us.ibm.com Wed Dec 14 17:14:38 2005 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:14:38 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <43A096EB.2030703@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: > I do enjoy the irony. Randal makes a jest about people not > understanding > the difference between Javascript/java and someone had to > illustrate the > point for us. *bravo* To clear up a couple more common misconceptions about the two languages... Java is not an acronym (bad: JAVA) JavaScript has a capped S (bad: Javascript, javascript, JAVA SCRIPT) Ah. I feel better now. Back to coding pHp. Oops. :) Daniel Krook, Content Tools Developer Global Production Services - Tools, ibm.com http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ http://bookmarks.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ From ashaw at polymerdb.org Wed Dec 14 17:19:05 2005 From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:19:05 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <43A096EB.2030703@forsalebyowner.com> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> <43A096EB.2030703@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: <43A09A59.6050609@polymerdb.org> Hi All, Having read John's posts here for a couple of years, my guess is his tongue was planted so firmly in cheek that some people didn't notice. If I'm right, I guess the fact that someone took him literally just reflects how common such a "javascript == java light for script kiddies" attitude is. Nice, John. :o) - Allen Morgan Craft wrote: > I've never thought java was anymore difficult than php. In fact JAVA > was the first programming language I learned in college in my > introductory computer sciences courses before moving on to C. I picked > up PHP because it seemed like a simple and fast web development language > that gave me the flexibility to communicate with MySQL and Flash > Actionscript. > > And JAVA and Javascript are nothing alike. Javascript was made by > someone at Netscape, not Sun. And it wasn't even called Javascript at > first. Bleh, I could go on and on about the difference but I have work > to do. > > I do enjoy the irony. Randal makes a jest about people not understanding > the difference between Javascript/java and someone had to illustrate the > point for us. *bravo* > > inforequest wrote: > > >>Randal Rust randalrust-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>On 12/14/05, Morgan Craft wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>JAVA was by far a better programming language. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>The company that I work for is primarily a Java shop. The global HR >>>director sent out an email the other day regarding some new jobs that >>>were available. One of the requirements was something called JAVA >>>SCRIPT. >>> >>>There are a lot of people, especially in the public sector >>>environment, who still think that Java is king, and couldn't tell you >>>the difference between Java and Javascript. >>> >>>-- >>>Randal Rust >>>www.r2communications.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. >>JAVA is a serious professional language capable of enterprise >>applications, not just web sites. It is too hard for most script >>programmers. >>Therefore they also have JAVA SCRIPT, which is like a lightweight JAVA, >>made for script coders (like PHP coders who have graduated to something >>more serious, but aren't yet ready for the complexity of JAVA). >> >>Right? >> >>-=john andrews >>http://www.seo-fun.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk Mailing List >>AMP Technology >>Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.nyphp.org >> >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Allen Shaw Polymer (http://polymerdb.org) From fields at hedge.net Wed Dec 14 17:25:50 2005 From: fields at hedge.net (Adam Fields) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:25:50 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <43A09A59.6050609@polymerdb.org> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> <43A096EB.2030703@forsalebyowner.com> <43A09A59.6050609@polymerdb.org> Message-ID: <20051214222550.GG22026@lola.aquick.org> On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 04:19:05PM -0600, Allen Shaw wrote: > Having read John's posts here for a couple of years, my guess is his > tongue was planted so firmly in cheek that some people didn't notice. > If I'm right, I guess the fact that someone took him literally just > reflects how common such a "javascript == java light for script kiddies" > attitude is. Nice, John. :o) Fair enough. This has all interested me enough to go look up the earliest reference to JavaScript on the Netscape site in the IA, and lo and behold! It claims that JavaScript is "based on the Java language". http://web.archive.org/web/19961026232512/www3.netscape.com/comprod/products/navigator/version_3.0/index.html Never believe anything you read on the web. Drats. -- - Adam ** Expert Technical Project and Business Management **** System Performance Analysis and Architecture ****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ] [ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog [ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos [ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ].............Wiki [ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com Wed Dec 14 17:27:26 2005 From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:27:26 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Googl Results Layout In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512141355n2011f180g6f5c3134a84b1466@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512141228q451b75a6q4c401845a6857097@mail.gmail.com> <26871-69057@sneakemail.com> <8d9a42800512141355n2011f180g6f5c3134a84b1466@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12604-69866@sneakemail.com> Heh heh.. and he provides a gmail address to contact him. Doh! Just kidding, Joe. But if you have a non-Google email addy, hit me with it off list. -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com Joseph Crawford codebowl-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: > John, > > Please contact me off list or at 802-671-2021 > > Thanks, > > -- > Joseph Crawford Jr. > Zend Certified Engineer > Codebowl Solutions, Inc. > 1-802-671-2021 > codebowl at gmail.com From chsnyder at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 17:29:18 2005 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:29:18 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On 12/14/05, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote: > PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. Way to go, John. You just made steam come out of the heads of a bunch of distracted coders. Get back to work, folks, he's kidding. From morgan at forsalebyowner.com Wed Dec 14 17:33:33 2005 From: morgan at forsalebyowner.com (Morgan Craft) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:33:33 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <43A09DBD.5080502@forsalebyowner.com> I think I just realized... you people are nuts =P csnyder wrote: >On 12/14/05, inforequest <1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com> wrote: > > > >>PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. >> >> > >Way to go, John. You just made steam come out of the heads of a bunch >of distracted coders. > >Get back to work, folks, he's kidding. >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org > > > > From jeff.knight at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 17:42:58 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:42:58 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: References: <43A096EB.2030703@forsalebyowner.com> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512141442n3ff0f160nead191fb0b4d0ca3@mail.gmail.com> On 12/14/05, Daniel Krook wrote: > Java is not an acronym (bad: JAVA) > JavaScript has a capped S (bad: Javascript, javascript, JAVA SCRIPT) > > Ah. I feel better now. Back to coding pHp. Oops. :) Actually, Dan, for all those IE sluts out there it isn't even JavaScript, but JScript. Or, if they've really drank the coolaid, JScript .NET From mark at wildwoodinc.com Wed Dec 14 17:51:54 2005 From: mark at wildwoodinc.com (Mark Lassoff) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:51:54 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910512141442n3ff0f160nead191fb0b4d0ca3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Don't forget VBscript. Are you sure Javascript isn't based on Java? Mark Wildwood Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Knight [mailto:jeff.knight at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 4:43 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties On 12/14/05, Daniel Krook wrote: > Java is not an acronym (bad: JAVA) > JavaScript has a capped S (bad: Javascript, javascript, JAVA SCRIPT) > > Ah. I feel better now. Back to coding pHp. Oops. :) Actually, Dan, for all those IE sluts out there it isn't even JavaScript, but JScript. Or, if they've really drank the coolaid, JScript .NET _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From jeff.knight at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 17:56:13 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:56:13 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <9081033157698698692@unknownmsgid> References: <2ca9ba910512141442n3ff0f160nead191fb0b4d0ca3@mail.gmail.com> <9081033157698698692@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512141456tfe15e04n460ccbdaff7ea086@mail.gmail.com> On 12/14/05, Mark Lassoff wrote: > Don't forget VBscript. No, for the love of all that is holy, do forget VBscript. I have, and I'm a happier man for it. From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com Wed Dec 14 17:55:21 2005 From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:55:21 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Re: Java - It's So Nineties In-Reply-To: <43A09A59.6050609@polymerdb.org> References: <004b01c5ffe3$e40acfa0$6401a8c0@MZ> <330532b60512131607t73338d64s5d7c8d20266d1556@mail.gmail.com> <43A03462.7030208@forsalebyowner.com> <31329-21295@sneakemail.com> <43A096EB.2030703@forsalebyowner.com> <43A09A59.6050609@polymerdb.org> Message-ID: <21879-10711@sneakemail.com> I do apologize if anyone forwarded that to their boss as authoritative. If it creates problems, I'll search optimize your resume for free on the phrases of your choice :-) Actually, I was playing with Java when the javascript stuff started. There seemed to be a very deliberate tie of js to Java, for the promotional effect in the market place. At that time Java was very young/small, but wildly popular, and it wasn't a big stretch to relate LiveScript to Java because there were indeed syntactical similarities (at the time) -- perhaps one of the biggest similarities being that they were both quite different from C/C++ and HTML. So LiveScript was renamed javascript to keep it alive as "new" and "fresh" and "worthy". I guess it worked. Whenever I read that a recruiter said X was better than Y, I am urged to sell pieces of the Brooklyn Bridge, or tickets to the secret "Acoustic Elvis" show (it's a little known secret that Elvis lives, and still performs live on Monday nights at the NightLight Lounge in Bellingham,Washington). Of course there really are no pieces of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale (all of the pieces sink into the river immediately after falling off - duh.) and likewise every Bellingham local knows the NightLight Lounge closes to the public for the Elvis shows - there are no tickets to sell. -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com Allen Shaw ashaw-at-polymerdb.org |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: >Hi All, > >Having read John's posts here for a couple of years, my guess is his >tongue was planted so firmly in cheek that some people didn't notice. >If I'm right, I guess the fact that someone took him literally just >reflects how common such a "javascript == java light for script kiddies" >attitude is. Nice, John. :o) > >- Allen > >Morgan Craft wrote: > > >>I've never thought java was anymore difficult than php. In fact JAVA >>was the first programming language I learned in college in my >>introductory computer sciences courses before moving on to C. I picked >>up PHP because it seemed like a simple and fast web development language >>that gave me the flexibility to communicate with MySQL and Flash >>Actionscript. >> >>And JAVA and Javascript are nothing alike. Javascript was made by >>someone at Netscape, not Sun. And it wasn't even called Javascript at >>first. Bleh, I could go on and on about the difference but I have work >>to do. >> >>I do enjoy the irony. Randal makes a jest about people not understanding >>the difference between Javascript/java and someone had to illustrate the >>point for us. *bravo* >> >>inforequest wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>Randal Rust randalrust-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>On 12/14/05, Morgan Craft wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>JAVA was by far a better programming language. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>The company that I work for is primarily a Java shop. The global HR >>>>director sent out an email the other day regarding some new jobs that >>>>were available. One of the requirements was something called JAVA >>>>SCRIPT. >>>> >>>>There are a lot of people, especially in the public sector >>>>environment, who still think that Java is king, and couldn't tell you >>>>the difference between Java and Javascript. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Randal Rust >>>>www.r2communications.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>PHP is a scripting language. JAVA is a real language. >>>JAVA is a serious professional language capable of enterprise >>>applications, not just web sites. It is too hard for most script >>>programmers. >>>Therefore they also have JAVA SCRIPT, which is like a lightweight JAVA, >>>made for script coders (like PHP coders who have graduated to something >>>more serious, but aren't yet ready for the complexity of JAVA). >>> >>>Right? >>> >>>-=john andrews >>>http://www.seo-fun.com >>> >>> >>> From jonbaer at jonbaer.com Wed Dec 14 18:47:10 2005 From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:47:10 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Propel/Creole/Qcodo vs. Upcoming Zend Framework In-Reply-To: <43A033C5.6040200@caseysoftware.com> References: <2E169EFF-258B-4282-A639-BA6E7D035AFF@jonbaer.com> <43A033C5.6040200@caseysoftware.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys for the links .. pretty insightful stuff! Much appreciated ... - Jon On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Keith Casey wrote: > On that note... I did an interview with Mike last week on > CodeSnipers: > > http://codesnipers.com/?q=node/187 > > The depth of his answers was pretty impressive and clarified some > things > for me. I hope others do/will find it useful! > > keith > > Alberto dos Santos wrote: >> Hey Jon. >> Have you read this? http://www.qcodo.com/documentation/article.php/6 >> Also in the forums there are 2 or 3 threads that will enlighten you, >> because Mike Ho works closely with Zend and has some good insights. >> Like this one: http://www.qcodo.com/forums/topic.php/7 >> HTH, if not drop a line on the forums and you will be surprised by >> the >> extent of Mike's answers about his baby qcodo. > -- > D. Keith Casey Jr. > CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC > http://CaseySoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > From corey at domanistudios.com Wed Dec 14 19:10:36 2005 From: corey at domanistudios.com (Corey Szopinski) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:10:36 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] status of large file uploads Message-ID: <3D70C97A-9D8F-4A6E-AAA2-FD6BA9D2CA47@domanistudios.com> I'm trying to build a simple AJAX file upload progress bar. I'm running into some trouble getting access to the file information that I need. I've seen a couple of different strategies for tackling this problem. 1. patching PHP so that it has a callback handler in the file upload methods http://pdoru.from.ro/ 2. Watching the tmp upload directory for file size updates http://lixlpixel.org/ajax-upload-progress/ http://www.devpro.it/upload_progress/ 3. Using a perl cgi-script to monitor the files http://sourceforge.net/projects/megaupload/ I don't like option #1 because I don't want to have to patch my installation of php. I don't mind #2, but I need to support concurrent uploads, so this one is out of the running. I'm also loath to use #3, because I'm not a huge fan of perl, and it seems like PHP should be able to handle it. A further frustration is that the $_FILES array seems to populate _after_ the file is finished uploading. I had hoped to grab the $_FILE ['tmp_name'] early, and then monitor the file via filesystem calls. I had also kicked around using ini_set('tmp_upload_dir') to a dynamic folder and then scanning over that folder like option #2, but the ini_set would apply to all uploads, and not just the one I want to monitor (which means no concurrent uploads). Are there any other sneaky ways to either 1. get (or set) the tmp_name of a file so it can be watched, or 2. another means entirely of watching the progress. Any help would be appreciated. thanks, -corey From rsandie at interactivetube.com Wed Dec 14 22:29:10 2005 From: rsandie at interactivetube.com (Robert Sandie) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:29:10 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] status of large file uploads In-Reply-To: <3D70C97A-9D8F-4A6E-AAA2-FD6BA9D2CA47@domanistudios.com> References: <3D70C97A-9D8F-4A6E-AAA2-FD6BA9D2CA47@domanistudios.com> Message-ID: <43A0E306.2080103@interactivetube.com> If you aren't afraid of Flash 8 you can integrate PHP with a Flash progress bar: http://www.joshbuhler.com/flash8/upload/ Rest of the article is here: http://www.joshbuhler.com/2005/08/12/uploading-files-in-flash-8/ -Rob -- robertsandie.com Corey Szopinski wrote: >I'm trying to build a simple AJAX file upload progress bar. I'm >running into some trouble getting access to the file information that >I need. > >I've seen a couple of different strategies for tackling this problem. > >1. patching PHP so that it has a callback handler in the file upload >methods >http://pdoru.from.ro/ > >2. Watching the tmp upload directory for file size updates >http://lixlpixel.org/ajax-upload-progress/ >http://www.devpro.it/upload_progress/ > >3. Using a perl cgi-script to monitor the files >http://sourceforge.net/projects/megaupload/ > > >I don't like option #1 because I don't want to have to patch my >installation of php. I don't mind #2, but I need to support >concurrent uploads, so this one is out of the running. I'm also loath >to use #3, because I'm not a huge fan of perl, and it seems like PHP >should be able to handle it. > >A further frustration is that the $_FILES array seems to populate >_after_ the file is finished uploading. I had hoped to grab the $_FILE >['tmp_name'] early, and then monitor the file via filesystem calls. I >had also kicked around using ini_set('tmp_upload_dir') to a dynamic >folder and then scanning over that folder like option #2, but the >ini_set would apply to all uploads, and not just the one I want to >monitor (which means no concurrent uploads). > >Are there any other sneaky ways to either 1. get (or set) the >tmp_name of a file so it can be watched, or 2. another means entirely >of watching the progress. > >Any help would be appreciated. > >thanks, > >-corey >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org > > > From chris at theyellowbox.com Wed Dec 14 23:03:12 2005 From: chris at theyellowbox.com (Chris Merlo) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:03:12 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] JavaScript -> PHP Message-ID: <946586480512142003m1e6b16dbg5798322931c80e4e@mail.gmail.com> Folks: I apologize if this has been covered before, but this is a difficult thing to Google. I'd like my PHP script to use values that come from a JavaScript script. I'm thinking that I could probably have the .js set a cookie to be read by the .php, but I'm wondering if anyone has come across a more elegant solution than this. Also, I'm putting together an Amazon wish list; are there any JavaScript books that anyone would consider essential reading? Thanks. -c -- chris at theyellowbox.com http://www.theyellowbox.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolan at omnistep.com Wed Dec 14 23:22:48 2005 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:22:48 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] JavaScript -> PHP In-Reply-To: <946586480512142003m1e6b16dbg5798322931c80e4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <946586480512142003m1e6b16dbg5798322931c80e4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43A0EF98.6030407@omnistep.com> Check out http://www.webdevelopersjournal.com/articles/jscript_forms1.html What you are probaby looking for is in the 2nd page under the "HIDDEN INPUT type" subsection.In case you are wondering, I googled for "javascript cgi post" ~Rolan Chris Merlo wrote: > Folks: > I apologize if this has been covered before, but this is a difficult > thing to Google. I'd like my PHP script to use values that come from > a JavaScript script. I'm thinking that I could probably have the .js > set a cookie to be read by the .php, but I'm wondering if anyone has > come across a more elegant solution than this. > > Also, I'm putting together an Amazon wish list; are there any > JavaScript books that anyone would consider essential reading? > > Thanks. > From chris at theyellowbox.com Wed Dec 14 23:32:32 2005 From: chris at theyellowbox.com (Chris Merlo) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:32:32 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] JavaScript -> PHP In-Reply-To: <43A0EF98.6030407@omnistep.com> References: <946586480512142003m1e6b16dbg5798322931c80e4e@mail.gmail.com> <43A0EF98.6030407@omnistep.com> Message-ID: <946586480512142032t78ffa165yc9cbc8d032fe67b3@mail.gmail.com> On 12/14/05, Rolan Yang wrote: > > Check out > http://www.webdevelopersjournal.com/articles/jscript_forms1.html What > you are probaby looking for is in the 2nd page under the "HIDDEN INPUT > type" subsection.In case you are wondering, I googled for "javascript > cgi post" Thanks for the advice, Rolan. I'll go read that page now. -c -- chris at theyellowbox.com http://www.theyellowbox.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krook at us.ibm.com Thu Dec 15 00:08:02 2005 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:08:02 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] JavaScript -> PHP In-Reply-To: <946586480512142003m1e6b16dbg5798322931c80e4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Folks: > I apologize if this has been covered before, but this is a > difficult thing to Google. I'd like my PHP script to use > values that come from a JavaScript script. I'm thinking > that I could probably have the .js set a cookie to be read > by the .php, but I'm wondering if anyone has come across a > more elegant solution than this. > > Also, I'm putting together an Amazon wish list; are there > any JavaScript books that anyone would consider essential reading? > > Thanks. > -c Chris, Here's a snippet I've used to have PHP and JavaScript communicate via cookies. View it with Firefox so the HTML doesn't get parsed: http://krook.org/etc/js-cookie-php.txt As for books, these have served me well and are highly rated at Amazon as well. All are O'Reilly books: JavaScript: The Definitive Guide (the Rhino) JavaScript & DHTML Cookbook Dynamic HTML: The Definitive Reference HTH, -Dan Daniel Krook, Content Tools Developer Global Production Services - Tools, ibm.com http://bluepages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ http://blogpages.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ http://bookmarks.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/ From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com Thu Dec 15 07:26:08 2005 From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:26:08 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] status of large file uploads References: <3D70C97A-9D8F-4A6E-AAA2-FD6BA9D2CA47@domanistudios.com> Message-ID: <003c01c60172$ba94a0c0$1519a8c0@ced> You may want to take a look at NAJAX (Now called XOAD). http://www.xoad.org/?najax ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corey Szopinski" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:10 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] status of large file uploads I'm trying to build a simple AJAX file upload progress bar. I'm running into some trouble getting access to the file information that I need. I've seen a couple of different strategies for tackling this problem. 1. patching PHP so that it has a callback handler in the file upload methods http://pdoru.from.ro/ 2. Watching the tmp upload directory for file size updates http://lixlpixel.org/ajax-upload-progress/ http://www.devpro.it/upload_progress/ 3. Using a perl cgi-script to monitor the files http://sourceforge.net/projects/megaupload/ I don't like option #1 because I don't want to have to patch my installation of php. I don't mind #2, but I need to support concurrent uploads, so this one is out of the running. I'm also loath to use #3, because I'm not a huge fan of perl, and it seems like PHP should be able to handle it. A further frustration is that the $_FILES array seems to populate _after_ the file is finished uploading. I had hoped to grab the $_FILE ['tmp_name'] early, and then monitor the file via filesystem calls. I had also kicked around using ini_set('tmp_upload_dir') to a dynamic folder and then scanning over that folder like option #2, but the ini_set would apply to all uploads, and not just the one I want to monitor (which means no concurrent uploads). Are there any other sneaky ways to either 1. get (or set) the tmp_name of a file so it can be watched, or 2. another means entirely of watching the progress. Any help would be appreciated. thanks, -corey _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From jeff.loiselle at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 15:03:20 2005 From: jeff.loiselle at gmail.com (Jeff Loiselle) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:03:20 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] December Meeting or Party? Message-ID: <4b1887110512161203k384ca77ar413c4a7a502509ba@mail.gmail.com> Forgive me if I missed the posts that cover this question.. But is there a meeting this month or a party in its stead? --- Jeff Loiselle Web Developer, Musician, and Observer http://jeff.loiselles.com From mike.n at zend.com Fri Dec 16 17:46:20 2005 From: mike.n at zend.com (Mike Naberezny) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:46:20 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] "Calling" an object In-Reply-To: <20051210040834.GM14182@desario.homelinux.net> References: <20051210040834.GM14182@desario.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <43A343BC.40000@zend.com> Hi Andrew, Andrew Yochum wrote: > I want to reproduce the equivalent of Python's magic __call__ method in > PHP 5. More or less this might look like: That's a great question. In Python, the magic __call__ method defines the behavior of an object when the object is "called like a method". > class foo { > function __call__() { return "bar"; } > } > > $o = new foo(); > $s = $o(); > // $s = "bar" Unfortunately, you can't do this in the PHP global scope, as your example and this one demonstrate: This will raise a fatal error (function name must be string), which is not interceptable. PHP thinks you are trying to use a "variable function". However, you probably won't be using most of your code in the global scope anyway, so there is still some hope. You can do some interesting behaviors by using the magic methods __get() and __call() as proxies in a container object. The __get() magic acts as a proxy for undefined properties of an object. Similarly, the __call() magic is a proxy for undefined methods. By keeping a child object as a protected member of a container and returning it only through __get(), you can then use __call() as a broker to the child object's methods when "it is called like a method". First, we can set up your class Foo from above, with the "__call__" method: class Foo { public function calledAsMethod($args) { return 'bar'; } public function hello() { return 'hi'; } } Next, another class is built to contain it. class Bar { /* @var Foo */ protected $_foo = null; public function __construct() { $this->_foo = new Foo(); } public function __get($offset) { if ($offset=='foo') { return $this->_foo; } else throw new Exception("Undefined property: $offset"); } public function __call($offset, $args) { if ($offset=='foo') { return $this->_foo->calledAsMethod($args); } else throw new Exception("Undefined method: $offset"); } } Here's how it works: $bar = new Bar(); echo $bar->foo->hello(); // "hi" - Foo is returned, Foo::hello() is called echo $bar->foo(); // "bar" - __call() brokers to calledAsMethod() This is almost the same functionality as Python's __call__, except that you have to access it through the container Bar. Depending on how you intend to use it, there is a drawback to the code as shown above, in that the visibility of Bar's magic property "foo" is always public (like the usage examples). That might be what you want, however it isn't if you are only using magic "foo" from inside the scope of Bar (as in $this->foo and $this->foo()). If that's the case, and your Bar class is not using __get() or __call() to provide any other public magics, you can set their visibility to protected or private. They will still function within the scope of Bar, however calls to the magic property "foo" from outside the scope of Bar will then raise a fatal error: Call to protected method Bar::__get(). Regards, Mike -- Mike Naberezny Senior PHP Developer Zend Technologies, The PHP Company 19200 Stevens Creek Blvd, Suite 100 Cupertino, CA 95014 Tel: 408-342-8891 Fax: 408-253-8801 mike.n at zend.com From andrew at plexpod.com Fri Dec 16 18:05:41 2005 From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:05:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] "Calling" an object In-Reply-To: <43A343BC.40000@zend.com> References: <20051210040834.GM14182@desario.homelinux.net> <43A343BC.40000@zend.com> Message-ID: <20051216230541.GB4075@desario.homelinux.net> Hi Mike, On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 02:46:20PM -0800, Mike Naberezny wrote: > However, you probably won't be using most of your code in the global scope > anyway, so there is still some hope. You can do some interesting behaviors > by using the magic methods __get() and __call() as proxies in a container > object. Thanks! Since my message I had come up with a similar solution - using a container on the top level. The trick then was to get all properties and return values of the contained objects to behave the same way, so I wrap all return values (in __call) and properties (in__get) in a delegate/decorator that behaves the same was as the container. Does the trick nicely! Thanks again, Andrew -- Andrew Yochum Plexpod andrew at plexpod.com 718-360-0879 From mike.n at zend.com Fri Dec 16 18:47:17 2005 From: mike.n at zend.com (Mike Naberezny) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:47:17 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] "Calling" an object In-Reply-To: <20051216230541.GB4075@desario.homelinux.net> References: <20051210040834.GM14182@desario.homelinux.net> <43A343BC.40000@zend.com> <20051216230541.GB4075@desario.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <43A35205.9090502@zend.com> Hi Andrew, Andrew Yochum wrote: > Since my message I had come up with a similar solution - using a > container on the top level. The trick then was to get all properties > and return values of the contained objects to behave the same way, so I > wrap all return values (in __call) and properties (in__get) in a > delegate/decorator that behaves the same was as the container. Does the > trick nicely! That sounds good to me. This is an interesting topic and there are quite a few other uses for variations on this theme as well. The __magics() are very powerful. One of technique that I use is lazy loading expensive objects in __get(), so that they are only require()ed and instantiated if they are needed by the container object. It's analogous to __autoload(), except its on the class-level instead of the global scope. Another benefit of __get() proxies is that you can provide immutability for an object. If your object is accessible only through __get(), you can protect it from being reassigned (and thus possibly destroyed, depending on refcount) in __set(). Where I think it is really gets interesting is when the child object being proxied implements the Zend Engine II interfaces ArrayAccess and Iterator. You can expose what looks and works exactly like a public property array for the end user, and the object underneath can't be destroyed (conventionally). You can use these to provide some neat behaviors for nested objects. If you are on PHP 5.1 already, be sure to check out __isset() and __unset() also. I haven't experimented with these much yet, but I'm sure that there are a lot of interesting possibilities for them as well. Something that comes to mind for __unset() would be the emulation of Microsoft's _QueryUnload event (pseudo-abortable destruction for your child objects). Mike -- Mike Naberezny Senior PHP Developer Zend Technologies, The PHP Company 19200 Stevens Creek Blvd, Suite 100 Cupertino, CA 95014 Tel: 408-342-8891 Fax: 408-253-8801 mike.n at zend.com From max at neuropunks.org Fri Dec 16 19:28:43 2005 From: max at neuropunks.org (Max Gribov) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:28:43 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] crypt() issue Message-ID: <43A35BBB.7010008@neuropunks.org> Hello, Strange issue, cant figure out what Im doing wrong. I have users sign up, and then add their password into database after running $passwd = crypt($post['passwd1']); $user->create($post['username'], $passwd, $post['email']); The user class handles the creation fine, there is a crypt'ed entry in the password field in the DB. Then, I am trying to authenticate a user on login like so: In index.php: $user->login($post[username], $post[password], $_SERVER[HTTP_USER_AGENT], 'user'); In classes file for User class: public function login($username, $password, $user_agent, $realm) { $this->username = $username; $this->password = $password; $sql = "select password from users where username='$this->username' and admin='f'"; $db_res = $this->db->Execute($sql); if (crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields['password']) != $db_res->fields['password']) { $this->error = "Invalid username/password "; return false; } else { // set session vars, redirect, etc } } $post is the processed array of $_POST but its not being modified when processed, only checked for invalid input and the program will die() if it doesnt comply. So basically, crypt($post['passwd1']) during signup creates one value, but crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields['password']) during authentication returns a different, although always the same, value. I have exactly same code, in index.php and in classes file and in SQL command in other apps, and it works without a problem. I am starting to get lost here, I basically copy/paste all the auth code, and it stops working. I checked if input from $_POST is being modified anywhere, and its not. If anyone wants to see the code in action, look at http://www.angrycollegekid.com/index.php?a=signup, signup for an account and then try to login, or just use crap/crap for testing. There are debugs of what you enter, what first crypt() returns, and what is actually stored in the DB. (sorry for spamming with the actual domain name) max From glenn310b at mac.com Sat Dec 17 10:31:12 2005 From: glenn310b at mac.com (Glenn) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:31:12 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] crypt() issue In-Reply-To: <43A35BBB.7010008@neuropunks.org> References: <43A35BBB.7010008@neuropunks.org> Message-ID: <7e5e7d3813ee5dc8b69c272235c7629d@mac.com> Hi Max, The first line has the $post array key for password as 'passwd1' Is that what you wanted? Glenn On Dec 16, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Max Gribov wrote: > Hello, > Strange issue, cant figure out what Im doing wrong. > > I have users sign up, and then add their password into database after > running > $passwd = crypt($post['passwd1']); > $user->create($post['username'], $passwd, $post['email']); > > The user class handles the creation fine, there is a crypt'ed entry in > the password field in the DB. > Then, I am trying to authenticate a user on login like so: > > In index.php: > $user->login($post[username], $post[password], > $_SERVER[HTTP_USER_AGENT], 'user'); > > In classes file for User class: > public function login($username, $password, $user_agent, $realm) { > $this->username = $username; > $this->password = $password; > $sql = "select password from users where username='$this->username' > and admin='f'"; > $db_res = $this->db->Execute($sql); > if (crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields['password']) != > $db_res->fields['password']) { > $this->error = "Invalid username/password "; > return false; > } else { > // set session vars, redirect, etc > } > } > > $post is the processed array of $_POST but its not being modified when > processed, only checked for invalid input and the program will die() if > it doesnt comply. > > So basically, > crypt($post['passwd1']) > during signup creates one value, but > > crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields['password']) > during authentication returns a different, although always the same, > value. > > I have exactly same code, in index.php and in classes file and in SQL > command in other apps, and it works without a problem. > I am starting to get lost here, I basically copy/paste all the auth > code, and it stops working. > I checked if input from $_POST is being modified anywhere, and its not. > > If anyone wants to see the code in action, look at > http://www.angrycollegekid.com/index.php?a=signup, signup for an > account > and then try to login, or just use crap/crap for testing. > There are debugs of what you enter, what first crypt() returns, and > what > is actually stored in the DB. > > (sorry for spamming with the actual domain name) > > max > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > From max at neuropunks.org Sat Dec 17 14:04:31 2005 From: max at neuropunks.org (max at neuropunks.org) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:04:31 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] crypt() issue In-Reply-To: <7e5e7d3813ee5dc8b69c272235c7629d@mac.com> References: <7e5e7d3813ee5dc8b69c272235c7629d@mac.com> Message-ID: <0.62767200.1134846271@neuropunks.org> Yup, thats the first password field from the form, and that code gets called after a check for passwd1 == passwd2 --- Original Message --- From: Glenn Sent: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:31:12 -0500 To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] crypt() issue > Hi Max, > > The first line has the $post array key for password as \'passwd1\' > Is that what you wanted? > > Glenn > > On Dec 16, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Max Gribov wrote: > > > Hello, > > Strange issue, cant figure out what Im doing wrong. > > > > I have users sign up, and then add their password into database after > > running > > $passwd = crypt($post[\'passwd1\']); > > $user->create($post[\'username\'], $passwd, $post[\'email\']); > > > > The user class handles the creation fine, there is a crypt\'ed entry in > > the password field in the DB. > > Then, I am trying to authenticate a user on login like so: > > > > In index.php: > > $user->login($post[username], $post[password], > > $_SERVER[HTTP_USER_AGENT], \'user\'); > > > > In classes file for User class: > > public function login($username, $password, $user_agent, $realm) { > > $this->username = $username; > > $this->password = $password; > > $sql = \"select password from users where username=\'$this->username\' > > and admin=\'f\'\"; > > $db_res = $this->db->Execute($sql); > > if (crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields[\'password\']) != > > $db_res->fields[\'password\']) { > > $this->error = \"Invalid username/password \"; > > return false; > > } else { > > // set session vars, redirect, etc > > } > > } > > > > $post is the processed array of $_POST but its not being modified when > > processed, only checked for invalid input and the program will die() if > > it doesnt comply. > > > > So basically, > > crypt($post[\'passwd1\']) > > during signup creates one value, but > > > > crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields[\'password\']) > > during authentication returns a different, although always the same, > > value. > > > > I have exactly same code, in index.php and in classes file and in SQL > > command in other apps, and it works without a problem. > > I am starting to get lost here, I basically copy/paste all the auth > > code, and it stops working. > > I checked if input from $_POST is being modified anywhere, and its not. > > > > If anyone wants to see the code in action, look at > > http://www.angrycollegekid.com/index.php?a=signup, signup for an > > account > > and then try to login, or just use crap/crap for testing. > > There are debugs of what you enter, what first crypt() returns, and > > what > > is actually stored in the DB. > > > > (sorry for spamming with the actual domain name) > > > > max > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > > AMP Technology > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > From lists at zaunere.com Sun Dec 18 20:30:20 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:30:20 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] December Meeting or Party? In-Reply-To: <4b1887110512161203k384ca77ar413c4a7a502509ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001d01c6043b$c72a2f50$6501a8c0@MZ> Jeff Loiselle wrote on Friday, December 16, 2005 3:03 PM: > Forgive me if I missed the posts that cover this question.. > > But is there a meeting this month or a party in its stead? There's not a meeting planned, but we are trying to figure out a good bar/lounge to meet at as an informal holiday party. In Jan. we're looking to have a large holiday party like last year. So, anyone with recommendations/ideas for a good place in Manhattan? --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From lists at zaunere.com Sun Dec 18 20:56:24 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:56:24 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Coding Standards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001e01c6043f$6b6f39e0$6501a8c0@MZ> Anirudh Zala wrote on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:07 PM: > I assume we need to create a general purpose coding standard that can be > helpful to member of this group and other as well. We can receive > comments, suggestion and input of all members who wants to contribute. > After reviewing all input, we can prepare nice looking coding standard > and can place somewhere on Nyphp.org. I assume it can be helpful for > other programming languages as well. > > Hans, any comments? Definitely and would be a nice compliment to the PHundamentals (http://www.nyphp.org/phundamentals). We had begun to do something like this with the code repository, but maintaining something like this takes a lot of time. I also take some notes/comments, but they're by no means ready for public consumption. That said, we're always happy for volunteers to take a lead in projects, so Anirudh if interested, then contact me off list and we can talk about getting started. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From lists at zaunere.com Sun Dec 18 21:05:43 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:05:43 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] problems loading a custom, shared extension In-Reply-To: <4397C464.8080406@simmons.edu> Message-ID: <002201c60440$b8865ff0$6501a8c0@MZ> Jonathan wrote on Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:28 AM: > I need help figuring out an error when writing/loading a custom, shared > extension (.so) for PHP. > Could anyone help or recommend good links, books, or other mailing lists > for developing in C to extend PHP? > > I have "Building Custom PHP Extensions" by Blake Schwendiman and > "Advanced PHP Programming" by George Schlossnagle (9432 times mentioned > on this list). Both excellent books which got me started, but looking for > more information. I've been around the Zend Dev site and > http://talks.php.net/ (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/ as well) but I am > stuck. > > Thank you. > > Background: > ------------- > I am writing a script in C that uses shared memory and/or memory-mapped > files to (attempt to) speed up some frequently used PHP functionality. > I need to test the speed of the extension (using some apache "ab" > scripts) in environments where the extension will be loaded via the ini > rather than being compiled into php. > > Summary of Problem: > ---------- > The extension will compile into PHP 4.4.1 and runs without issue as a > compiled-in extension. > I can build it into a shared object using phpize for both 4.4.1 source > and the 4.3.11 binaries. > I get no errors running phpize. > In both the PHP.INI context and dl() context the only error message is ( > it can, at least, find the .so): "PHP Warning: Unknown(): Invalid > library (maybe not a PHP library) 'my_ext.so' in Unknown on line 0" > > Details: > ----------- > Linux, Fedora Core 4. GCC 4.0.x > > dl() fails to load the .so in CLI with php of the same version (perhaps > it fails because it is already an internal extension?) > dl() AND loading through the INI fail in a server (Apache 2.0.x) with a > different version of php (4.3.11) . php.ini. (I run phpize that is > included with the precompiled 4.3.11 and added the 3 headers it needs. ) > Only error message is at load time ( it can, at least, find the .so): > > "PHP Warning: Unknown(): Invalid library (maybe not a PHP library) > 'my_ext.so' in Unknown on line 0" This would involve some more debugging, but perhaps here are some things to keep in mind: -- you might get symbol conflicts if the extension is compiled in and also loaded with dl(); do one or the other -- I've noticed that PHP extensions are quite sensitive to the PHP and Zend Engine versions. Be sure you're using the same versions of phpize and the running PHP. Pay attention to the top section of phpinfo()'s outout (fields like PHP API, PHP Extension, Zend Extension). Best, --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From joyster at HeadwayCorp.com Mon Dec 19 15:02:04 2005 From: joyster at HeadwayCorp.com (Jeof Oyster) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:02:04 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] LibMCrypt Kills Server? Message-ID: Has anyone else had trouble with libmcrypt tanking the server when its enabled? I'm running PHP 5 on IIS 6, Win2003, and whenever I enable libmcrypt, the server won't respond. When I disable it, its back up. Jeof Oyster System Analyst / Information &Technology Office Phone: 212-672-6683 Fax: 215-975-6683 (efax) Email: joyster at headwaycorp.com http://www.headwaycorp.com ********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ********************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HEADWAY_NEWGRAY_PMS_150.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3126 bytes Desc: HEADWAY_NEWGRAY_PMS_150.gif URL: From lamolist at cyberxdesigns.com Mon Dec 19 16:22:02 2005 From: lamolist at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans Kaspersetz) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:22:02 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Oct. & Nov. Presenations Message-ID: <43A7247A.7090704@cyberxdesigns.com> We have posted both the October and November presentations. http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/ Thanks, Hans Kaspersetz Presentation Lacky, NYPHP Hans C. Kaspersetz Cyber X Designs http://www.cyberxdesigns.com From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Dec 19 16:52:27 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:52:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] December Meeting or Party? In-Reply-To: <001d01c6043b$c72a2f50$6501a8c0@MZ> References: <001d01c6043b$c72a2f50$6501a8c0@MZ> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Dec 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote: > There's not a meeting planned, but we are trying to figure out a good > bar/lounge to meet at as an informal holiday party. In Jan. we're looking > to have a large holiday party like last year. > > So, anyone with recommendations/ideas for a good place in Manhattan? The A&M Roadhouse -- site of the MySQL meetup -- seems OK. 57 Murray St, between Church St & W Bway (Disclosure: it's near where I work and I am lazy, so I'm biased.) --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From lists at genoverly.net Mon Dec 19 18:30:34 2005 From: lists at genoverly.net (michael) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:30:34 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] arg_separator Message-ID: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> net-www/apache-2.0.55 dev-lang/php-5.0.5-r1 I have a developemnt box running several sites. I'm having difficulty with one of them. Some of the GET variables have legit ampersands in them. I tried escaping them then rescaping them but got unexpected results. I changed all the separators in the urls to be &, but that didn't seem to work for me either. As per the PHP docs, the W3C recommends arg_separator to be ";" instead of "&". Ah, I thought, there is my answer. I did some poking around and found arg_separator *should* be able to be set on a per directory basis. I didn't want to do it site wide because that would entail changing every site I have on my development box AND all the production servers upstream. I just wanted to do it for this one site (for now) So, I left the default in the php.ini and in the apache vhost conf I added php_admin_value arg_separator.input ; But it does not seem to be picking that up. I must be missing something.. any ideas? -- Michael From shiflett at php.net Mon Dec 19 20:33:18 2005 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:33:18 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] arg_separator In-Reply-To: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> References: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> Message-ID: <43A75F5E.7080807@php.net> michael wrote: > Some of the GET variables have legit ampersands in them. I tried > escaping them then rescaping them but got unexpected results. Can you elaborate? The urlencode() function should work just fine. Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ From dcech at phpwerx.net Mon Dec 19 20:36:53 2005 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:36:53 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] arg_separator In-Reply-To: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> References: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> Message-ID: <43A76035.1080804@phpwerx.net> Ok, 1. proper url encoding Say you have 2 items to go into the url: $item1 = 'this & that'; $item2 = 'example at example.org'; Now, in order to get them into a url string, you want to urlencode (or rawurlencode) the values, so it will look like: $urlstring = 'whatever.php?item1='. urlencode($item1) .'&item2='. urlencode($item2); so urlstring now contains: whatever.php?item1=this+%26+that&item2=example%40example.org or, if you used rawurlencode: whatever.php?item1=this%20%26%20that&item2=example%40example.org This is now fine to enter into the location bar of your browser, but that & in the middle will wreak havoc on your html. One answer is to replace it with ; and change the arg_separator, but an easier solution is to do that same to it as you would for any other piece of data you're going to insert into your html page, run it through htmlentities echo 'a link'; will result in: a link As you can see that pesky & is converted to a nice & and your url will work 100% plus help you protect against XSS attacks, regardless of the arg separator you're using. Here is a handy little function to take an array and turn it into a query string, ready to go into a header or curl call, or through htmlentities and into html: function query_string($vars) { $arg_sep = ini_get('arg_separator.output'); if (empty($arg_sep)) { $arg_sep = '&'; } foreach ($vars as $key => $val) { $vars[$key] = urlencode($key) .'='. urlencode($val); } return implode($arg_sep,$vars); } 2. If you do want to set the arg_separator.input and/or .output to something else, use the php_value (not php_admin_value) and throw the directive into the .htaccess file at the root of your php scripts Dan michael wrote: > net-www/apache-2.0.55 > dev-lang/php-5.0.5-r1 > > I have a developemnt box running several sites. I'm having difficulty > with one of them. Some of the GET variables have legit ampersands in > them. I tried escaping them then rescaping them but got unexpected > results. I changed all the separators in the urls to be &, but > that didn't seem to work for me either. > > As per the PHP docs, the W3C recommends arg_separator to be ";" instead > of "&". Ah, I thought, there is my answer. > > I did some poking around and found arg_separator *should* be able to be > set on a per directory basis. I didn't want to do it site wide because > that would entail changing every site I have on my development box AND > all the production servers upstream. I just wanted to do it for this > one site (for now) So, I left the default in the php.ini and in the > apache vhost conf I added > > php_admin_value arg_separator.input ; > > But it does not seem to be picking that up. I must be missing > something.. any ideas? > > From greg.rundlett at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 21:49:15 2005 From: greg.rundlett at gmail.com (Greg Rundlett) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:49:15 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Oct. & Nov. Presenations In-Reply-To: <43A7247A.7090704@cyberxdesigns.com> References: <43A7247A.7090704@cyberxdesigns.com> Message-ID: <5e2aaca40512191849l108b9edau652dfbac79ba1a20@mail.gmail.com> On 12/19/05, Hans Kaspersetz wrote: > We have posted both the October and November presentations. > > http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/ Thank *you* From mikko.rantalainen at peda.net Tue Dec 20 03:17:02 2005 From: mikko.rantalainen at peda.net (Mikko Rantalainen) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:17:02 +0200 Subject: [nycphp-talk] crypt() issue In-Reply-To: <43A35BBB.7010008@neuropunks.org> References: <43A35BBB.7010008@neuropunks.org> Message-ID: <43A7BDFE.30505@peda.net> Max Gribov wrote: > I have users sign up, and then add their password into database after > running > $passwd = crypt($post['passwd1']); > $user->create($post['username'], $passwd, $post['email']); Do you check for errors in User::create()? Have you checked that DB entry really contains what you're expecting? > The user class handles the creation fine, there is a crypt'ed entry in > the password field in the DB. > Then, I am trying to authenticate a user on login like so: > > In index.php: > $user->login($post[username], $post[password], > $_SERVER[HTTP_USER_AGENT], 'user'); > > In classes file for User class: > public function login($username, $password, $user_agent, $realm) { > $this->username = $username; > $this->password = $password; > $sql = "select password from users where username='$this->username' > and admin='f'"; What's the meaning of "admin='f'"? > $db_res = $this->db->Execute($sql); Did you check for errors here? > if (crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields['password']) != > $db_res->fields['password']) { > $this->error = "Invalid username/password "; > return false; > } else { > // set session vars, redirect, etc > } > } > > $post is the processed array of $_POST but its not being modified when > processed, only checked for invalid input and the program will die() if > it doesnt comply. > > So basically, > crypt($post['passwd1']) > during signup creates one value, but > > crypt($this->password, $db_res->fields['password']) > during authentication returns a different, although always the same, value. My guess is that $db_res->fields['password'] doesn't contain the result of the original crypt() call with random salt. -- Mikko From adam at trachtenberg.com Tue Dec 20 04:03:42 2005 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 04:03:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] arg_separator In-Reply-To: <43A76035.1080804@phpwerx.net> References: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> <43A76035.1080804@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Dan Cech wrote: > Here is a handy little function to take an array and turn it into a > query string, ready to go into a header or curl call, or through > htmlentities and into html: > > function query_string($vars) [rest of useful post and function snipped] As of PHP 5, this is a built-in function, http_build_query(). -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com | http://www.trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From lists at genoverly.net Tue Dec 20 08:20:46 2005 From: lists at genoverly.net (michael) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:20:46 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] arg_separator In-Reply-To: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> References: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> Message-ID: <20051220082046.7b8624d6@wit.genoverly.home> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:30:34 -0500 michael wrote: > php_admin_value arg_separator.input ; Thanks for the suggestions. I went with the above, my problem was elsewhere. While this is less 'portable', it is a Ronco solution: Set it & forget it. -- Michael From dmintz at davidmintz.org Tue Dec 20 09:41:52 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:41:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] arg_separator In-Reply-To: References: <20051219183034.79c49ef7@wit.genoverly.home> <43A76035.1080804@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg wrote: > On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Dan Cech wrote: > > > Here is a handy little function to take an array and turn it into a > > query string[...] > > [rest of useful post and function snipped] > > As of PHP 5, this is a built-in function, http_build_query(). > Nice timing! You just made a piece of code I've been working shorter, and presumably, faster. What's the emoticon that means "bows down in gratitude?" --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From lists at zaunere.com Tue Dec 20 14:00:17 2005 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:00:17 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] December Meeting or Party? In-Reply-To: <001d01c6043b$c72a2f50$6501a8c0@MZ> Message-ID: <007301c60597$9f7ce1c0$6601a8c0@MZ> Hans Zaunere wrote on Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:30 PM: > Jeff Loiselle wrote on Friday, December 16, 2005 3:03 PM: > > Forgive me if I missed the posts that cover this question.. > > > > But is there a meeting this month or a party in its stead? > > There's not a meeting planned, but we are trying to figure out a good > bar/lounge to meet at as an informal holiday party. In Jan. we're looking > to have a large holiday party like last year. > > So, anyone with recommendations/ideas for a good place in Manhattan? It looks like the A&M Roadhouse (http://www.amroadhouse.com/) may be the best bet. We're tentative for an informal dinner/drinks, December 27th, at 6:30pm. We'll be getting an announcement out and an event on the calendar once confirmed but it looks promising. --- Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com From shiflett at php.net Wed Dec 21 13:33:20 2005 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:33:20 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? Message-ID: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> I just saw this: http://mambo-foundation.org/content/view/42/51/ Will the real Mambo please stand up? :-) Seriously, I consider whichever group Mitch is in to be the real thing, but I can't keep up. Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ From ken at secdat.com Wed Dec 21 13:55:13 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:55:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> Message-ID: <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> I seem to remember the mambo foundation was founded w/o consultation with core developers, so they forked and created joomla. > I just saw this: > > http://mambo-foundation.org/content/view/42/51/ > > Will the real Mambo please stand up? :-) Seriously, I consider whichever > group Mitch is in to be the real thing, but I can't keep up. > > Chris > > -- > Chris Shiflett > Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy > http://brainbulb.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From jeffrey.knight at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 13:59:55 2005 From: jeffrey.knight at gmail.com (Jeffrey Knight) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:59:55 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Message-ID: Joomla http://www.jamboworks.com/ [apparently there are 2 "jeff knight"s on this list. I'm not the other one] On 12/21/05, Kenneth Downs wrote: > I seem to remember the mambo foundation was founded w/o consultation with > core developers, so they forked and created joomla. > > > I just saw this: > > > > http://mambo-foundation.org/content/view/42/51/ > > > > Will the real Mambo please stand up? :-) Seriously, I consider whichever > > group Mitch is in to be the real thing, but I can't keep up. > > > > Chris > > > > -- > > Chris Shiflett > > Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy > > http://brainbulb.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > > AMP Technology > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > > > > -- > Kenneth Downs > Secure Data Software > 631-379-0010 > ken at secdat.com > PO Box 708 > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 16:27:13 2005 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:27:13 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> Message-ID: <330532b60512211327v47876bd9y61423eb65da2a61d@mail.gmail.com> On 12/21/05, Chris Shiflett wrote: > I just saw this: > > http://mambo-foundation.org/content/view/42/51/ Ok, so they are six months late, no problem. ;-) > Will the real Mambo please stand up? :-) Seriously, I consider whichever > group Mitch is in to be the real thing, but I can't keep up. Group? That would be Spacemonkey and the Joomaloids. We're hard at work on our first single, "Scrooged!". Happy holidays everyone, and enjoy your commute! hehe -- Mitch Pirtle Joomla! Core Developer Open Source Matters From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 16:32:30 2005 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:32:30 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Message-ID: <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> On 12/21/05, Kenneth Downs wrote: > I seem to remember the mambo foundation was founded w/o consultation with > core developers, so they forked and created joomla. The funny thing is that we are the entire team that made the recent Mambo (the one that won all the awards and so on), so we look at it more like they forked Mambo, and we just picked a new name. This was needed so we were empowered to move forward unfettered and unmolested. I prefer to use the term spork, as it is more like somewhere between a fork and a spoon. Or maybe we are more like a spatula, but the holidays make me think we are most like tongs or perhaps a nutmeg grinder. -- Mitch Pirtle Joomla! Core Developer Open Source Matters From jeff.knight at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 16:35:58 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:35:58 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512211335j3840a268x602690cc41932d63@mail.gmail.com> Sounds like somebody found the egg nog... On 12/21/05, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > On 12/21/05, Kenneth Downs wrote: > > I seem to remember the mambo foundation was founded w/o consultation with > > core developers, so they forked and created joomla. > > The funny thing is that we are the entire team that made the recent > Mambo (the one that won all the awards and so on), so we look at it > more like they forked Mambo, and we just picked a new name. This was > needed so we were empowered to move forward unfettered and unmolested. > > I prefer to use the term spork, as it is more like somewhere between a > fork and a spoon. Or maybe we are more like a spatula, but the > holidays make me think we are most like tongs or perhaps a nutmeg > grinder. > > -- > Mitch Pirtle > Joomla! Core Developer > Open Source Matters > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > From lists at genoverly.net Wed Dec 21 16:42:05 2005 From: lists at genoverly.net (michael) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:42:05 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051221164205.7da25d3c@wit.genoverly.home> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:32:30 -0500 Mitch Pirtle wrote: > I prefer to use the term spork, as it is more like somewhere between a > fork and a spoon. Or maybe we are more like a spatula, but the > holidays make me think we are most like tongs or perhaps a nutmeg > grinder. Now THAT is holiday cheer! Thanks for that little gift and the ones you've been leaving all year. -- Michael From ken at secdat.com Wed Dec 21 16:43:10 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:43:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <36505.38.117.147.25.1135201390.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Thanks for giving us the correct story. > On 12/21/05, Kenneth Downs wrote: >> I seem to remember the mambo foundation was founded w/o consultation >> with >> core developers, so they forked and created joomla. > > The funny thing is that we are the entire team that made the recent > Mambo (the one that won all the awards and so on), so we look at it > more like they forked Mambo, and we just picked a new name. This was > needed so we were empowered to move forward unfettered and unmolested. > > I prefer to use the term spork, as it is more like somewhere between a > fork and a spoon. Or maybe we are more like a spatula, but the > holidays make me think we are most like tongs or perhaps a nutmeg > grinder. > > -- > Mitch Pirtle > Joomla! Core Developer > Open Source Matters > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From sailer at bnl.gov Wed Dec 21 16:48:13 2005 From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:48:13 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <2ca9ba910512211335j3840a268x602690cc41932d63@mail.gmail.com> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> <2ca9ba910512211335j3840a268x602690cc41932d63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051221214812.GA29278@bnl.gov> On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 03:35:58PM -0600, Jeff Knight wrote: > Sounds like somebody found the egg nog... If not, make your own. :) Tim's Fat Free, non-alcoholic, calorie free Holiday Cheer (aka Eggnog) 6 eggs, beaten 2 cups milk - whole, not skim, get with the season! 1/3-1/2 cup sugar (depending on how sweet you like it) 4-8 tablespoons light rum (I use Bacardi Silver) 4-8 tablespoons bourbon (I use Kentucky Tavern, if you can find it.) 2 teaspoons real vanilla (use the real stuff, don't cheap out!) ICE 1 cup heavy or whipping cream 3 tablespoons sugar In a large heavy saucepan, combine the first 3 ingredients. Cook over a medium heat until the mixture starts to coat a metal spoon. This means it's turning into a light custard. Stir constantly to avoid sticking and the resultant clumps. Remove from heat. Cool quickly by placing the whole pot into an icewater bath, stirring for 2-3 minutes. You want lots of ice, as this will melt it fast. Stir in the rum, bourbon and vanilla. Chill 4-24 hrs. KEEP YOUR FINGERS OUT! Before serving, whip cream and remaining sugar until it just forms soft peaks. Not too stiff, you don't want whipcream lumps! In a serving bowl, pour the well chilled egg mixture, fold in the whipped cream, keeping it light and fluffy. Serve within a short time, as the whipped cream startd to lose it's loft. Sprinkle with a little nutmeg. Makes about 10 4oz servings, 5 8oz servings, 2 really nice servings, or, what the heck, drink it all yourself as a quality control test, and make another batch. Note: You can adjust the amount of booze (only up, of course) before you fold in the whipped cream. It doesn't combine well afterward. Happy Holidays! -- Tim Sailer Information and Special Technologies Program Office of Counterintelligence Brookhaven National Laboratory (631) 344-3001 From yournway at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 17:20:54 2005 From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:20:54 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla or Mambo? In-Reply-To: <20051221214812.GA29278@bnl.gov> References: <43A99FF0.8000001@php.net> <35687.38.117.147.25.1135191313.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <330532b60512211332j5281aa00tdbc120a4a7934173@mail.gmail.com> <2ca9ba910512211335j3840a268x602690cc41932d63@mail.gmail.com> <20051221214812.GA29278@bnl.gov> Message-ID: It's so nice to see these "computer freaks" turning out to have a life too... Merry Xmas to you all and a Happy New Year with all the best. -- Alberto dos Santos Consultor em TI IT Consultant http://www.yournway.com A internet ? sua maneira. The Internet your own way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tommyo at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 00:16:39 2005 From: tommyo at gmail.com (Thomas O'Neill) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:16:39 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Message-ID: Hey Gals and Guys, I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished product as well. The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. Any advice? -- Tom O'Neill tommyo at gmail.com From ken at secdat.com Thu Dec 22 06:59:49 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:59:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is how you prevent this in the future. Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server where you can put the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they run into cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and just leave it there until they come back. If they want to hurry up you say, "great" and ask for some more progress money. If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there are two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend credit is very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being paid, otherwise I cannot keep my commitments" 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress payments if they don't like it. For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have to pay you, that you don't count. Have your family attorney send them a letter demanding payment. If that does not work your attorney can escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter saying they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down. HOWEVER, it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to know that it will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this money comes in after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. > Hey Gals and Guys, > > I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am > looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I > spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very > nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished > product as well. > > The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was > supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months > ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active > and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of > visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say > they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > > The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over > the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to > acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a > Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the > only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. > Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. > > Any advice? > > -- > Tom O'Neill > tommyo at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From cliff at pinestream.com Thu Dec 22 07:06:30 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:06:30 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Message-ID: <000a01c606f0$25249530$0aa8a8c0@cliff> Very wise and rational advice. I was just going to say kill his dog. -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:00 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is how you prevent this in the future. Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server where you can put the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they run into cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and just leave it there until they come back. If they want to hurry up you say, "great" and ask for some more progress money. If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there are two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend credit is very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being paid, otherwise I cannot keep my commitments" 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress payments if they don't like it. For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have to pay you, that you don't count. Have your family attorney send them a letter demanding payment. If that does not work your attorney can escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter saying they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down. HOWEVER, it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to know that it will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this money comes in after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. > Hey Gals and Guys, > > I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am > looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I > spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very > nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished > product as well. > > The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was > supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months > ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active > and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of > visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say > they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > > The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over > the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to > acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a > Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the > only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. > Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. > > Any advice? > > -- > Tom O'Neill > tommyo at gmail.com _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From ken at secdat.com Thu Dec 22 07:12:16 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:12:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <000a01c606f0$25249530$0aa8a8c0@cliff> References: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <000a01c606f0$25249530$0aa8a8c0@cliff> Message-ID: <36777.38.117.147.25.1135253536.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Thanks for reminding me, kill his dog. :) > Very wise and rational advice. I was just going to say kill his dog. > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs > Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:00 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! > > > Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a > customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is how > you prevent this in the future. > > Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress > payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server where you can > put the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they run > into cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and just > leave it there until they come back. If they want to hurry up you say, > "great" and ask for some more progress money. > > If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there are > two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: > > 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend credit > is very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being paid, > otherwise I cannot keep my commitments" > > 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see > what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress > payments if they don't like it. > > For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have > to pay you, that you don't count. Have your family attorney send them a > letter demanding payment. If that does not work your attorney can > escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter > saying > they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down. > HOWEVER, > it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to know that it > will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you > must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate > instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this money comes > in after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. > > >> Hey Gals and Guys, >> >> I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am > >> looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I > >> spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very >> nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished >> product as well. >> >> The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was >> supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months >> ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active >> and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of >> visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say >> they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. >> >> The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over >> the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to >> acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a >> Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the >> only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. >> Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. >> >> Any advice? >> >> -- >> Tom O'Neill >> tommyo at gmail.com _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk Mailing List >> AMP Technology >> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.nyphp.org >> > > > -- > Kenneth Downs > Secure Data Software > 631-379-0010 > ken at secdat.com > PO Box 708 > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From cliff at pinestream.com Thu Dec 22 07:20:55 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:20:55 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <36777.38.117.147.25.1135253536.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Message-ID: <002301c606f2$2868b1c0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> On the flip side, I occasionally would like to outsource "pieces" but am always nervous unless I have a REALLY concrete spec. And most often, by the time I have written a spec to the level of detail required, I've written the code. It would be wonderful to be able to hand over a "fuzzy" spec. and allow the contractor to develop open-ended based on it and an interactive process. Is there any way to do this without getting royally screwed other than trust and faith? -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:12 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Thanks for reminding me, kill his dog. :) > Very wise and rational advice. I was just going to say kill his dog. > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs > Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:00 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! > > > Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a > customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is > how you prevent this in the future. > > Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress > payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server where you can > put the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they > run into cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and > just leave it there until they come back. If they want to hurry up > you say, "great" and ask for some more progress money. > > If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there > are two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: > > 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend > credit is very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being > paid, otherwise I cannot keep my commitments" > > 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see > what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress > payments if they don't like it. > > For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have > to pay you, that you don't count. Have your family attorney send them > a letter demanding payment. If that does not work your attorney can > escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter > saying they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down. > HOWEVER, > it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to know that it > will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you > must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate > instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this money comes > in after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. > > >> Hey Gals and Guys, >> >> I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I >> am > >> looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. >> I > >> spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very >> nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished >> product as well. >> >> The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was >> supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months >> ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active >> and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of >> visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say >> they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. >> >> The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over >> the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to >> acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a >> Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the >> only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. >> Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. >> >> Any advice? >> >> -- >> Tom O'Neill >> tommyo at gmail.com _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk Mailing List >> AMP Technology >> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.nyphp.org >> > > > -- > Kenneth Downs > Secure Data Software > 631-379-0010 > ken at secdat.com > PO Box 708 > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From codebowl at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 07:55:34 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:55:34 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <002301c606f2$2868b1c0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> References: <36777.38.117.147.25.1135253536.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <002301c606f2$2868b1c0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512220455t45ecc390vcc190f9933c8089e@mail.gmail.com> Thomas, I work with a designer that uses a collection agency that charges no fee's unless they recover. I can find out the name of the company, they are on the west coast. As a freelancer you should never release the code until payment is made in full. Put the site on your web host or dev machine for them to test. They pay and then you move it over. I will see what i can do to get the collection agency's contact information. Thanks, -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwithington at PLMresearch.com Thu Dec 22 08:03:22 2005 From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:03:22 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Message-ID: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE358013556D8@network.PLMresearch.com> This is a great thread. Kudos to all involved. I would suggest there's still a lot of caveat emptor... even in open source ;-) I think the fuzzy spec that Cliff is referencing is doable under the mantra, "release early, release often". Be it coding or fleshing out the spec no one should get too far down the path without feedback (and compensation). Obviously, such feedback requires documentation (UML?) to ensure the fuzz doesn't get out-of-hand. Kenneth's advice reminds me of the brick mason story. After getting screwed by contractors/home owners many times (e.g. building a fireplace and not getting paid), the crafty mason would place a sheet of glass about halfway up the flue during construction. The client would visit everyday to ensure the chimney/fireplace looked the way they wanted. Upon completion the mason would leave the invoice and wait.... When the client complained that the house filled with smoke, the mason would complain that he hadn't been paid. Everything was to spec, the home owner could even look straight up the chimney and see blue sky, so why hasn't he been paid? Upon receipt of the check, the mason would simply climb back up on the roof and drop a brick down the flu, bid the homeowner a nice day and then kill his dog;-) The moral of the story? Always be sure you have a brick in your back pocket. Cheers, -------------------------- Mark L. Withington PLMresearch "eBusiness for the Midsize Enterprise" PO Box 1354 Plymouth, MA 02362 o: 800-310-3992 ext. 704 f: 508-746-4973 v: 508-746-2383 m: 508-801-0181 http://www.PLMresearch.com AIM/MSN/Skype: PLMresearch Yahoo: PLMresearch2000 mwithington at plmresearch.com Public Key: http://www.plmresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Cliff Hirsch > Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:21 AM > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! > > > On the flip side, I occasionally would like to outsource > "pieces" but am > always nervous unless I have a REALLY concrete spec. And most > often, by > the time I have written a spec to the level of detail required, I've > written the code. It would be wonderful to be able to hand over a > "fuzzy" spec. and allow the contractor to develop open-ended > based on it > and an interactive process. Is there any way to do this > without getting > royally screwed other than trust and faith? > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs > Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:12 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! > > > Thanks for reminding me, kill his dog. :) > > > Very wise and rational advice. I was just going to say kill his dog. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs > > Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:00 AM > > To: NYPHP Talk > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! > > > > > > Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so > this is not a > > customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is > > how you prevent this in the future. > > > > Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get > progress > > payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server > where you can > > put the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they > > run into cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and > > just leave it there until they come back. If they want to hurry up > > you say, "great" and ask for some more progress money. > > > > If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up > front, there > > are two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: > > > > 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend > > credit is very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being > > paid, otherwise I cannot keep my commitments" > > > > 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so > they can see > > > what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress > > payments if they don't like it. > > > > For the current situation, they obviously believe that they > don't have > > > to pay you, that you don't count. Have your family > attorney send them > > > a letter demanding payment. If that does not work your > attorney can > > escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter > > saying they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to > take it down. > > HOWEVER, > > it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to > know that it > > will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the > meantime you > > must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, > concentrate > > instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this > money comes > > in after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. > > > > > >> Hey Gals and Guys, > >> > >> I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the > list and I > >> am > > > >> looking for a little advice. I have a client that is > being a pain. > >> I > > > >> spent alot of time developing a site for them and it > turned out very > >> nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the > finished > >> product as well. > >> > >> The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was > >> supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the > site months > > >> ago and have not received further payment. The site is > still active > >> and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive > hundreds of > >> visits a day and many users submitting information. > Needless to say > >> they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > >> > >> The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and > emails over > >> the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to > >> acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a > >> Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. > This was the > >> only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to > a friend. > >> Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken > advantage of. > >> > >> Any advice? > >> > >> -- > >> Tom O'Neill > >> tommyo at gmail.com _______________________________________________ > >> New York PHP Talk Mailing List > >> AMP Technology > >> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >> http://www.nyphp.org > >> > > > > > > -- > > Kenneth Downs > > Secure Data Software > > 631-379-0010 > > ken at secdat.com > > PO Box 708 > > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > > AMP Technology > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > > AMP Technology > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > > > > -- > Kenneth Downs > Secure Data Software > 631-379-0010 > ken at secdat.com > PO Box 708 > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > From ken at secdat.com Thu Dec 22 08:58:21 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:58:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <002301c606f2$2868b1c0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> References: <36777.38.117.147.25.1135253536.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <002301c606f2$2868b1c0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> Message-ID: <36966.38.117.147.25.1135259901.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Cliff, I've given a great of thought to this, and believe the answer is technology. I thought we needed a tool that made possible very rapid spec-code-review cycles, lots of iterative development, development by successive approximations. So I wrote it. It is called Andromeda. I use it myself for my clients, and you can take download it here: http://dhost2.secdat.com My statement of work is usually a page or two, based upon pre-sale discussions. We outline all of the major tables and custom screens, but leave the details for after the first check. My cost estimates are based on major table count and rules-of-thumb for adding in ancillary tables. So far it is working out great. I can do many small changes of spec with no recoding and no price changes, and I also have clear guidelines that customers accept for spec changes that require more $. This is a pre-alpha, purely for anybody who has interest in jumping in VERY early, before even all of the naming conventions and stuff like that are settled. If you need something more production-ready, probably best to wait. The current release is GPL, but it will be dual-licensed, something like mySQL. The free version will always be bleeding edge, the commercial version will be stable and supported by my company, Secure Data Software. > On the flip side, I occasionally would like to outsource "pieces" but am > always nervous unless I have a REALLY concrete spec. And most often, by > the time I have written a spec to the level of detail required, I've > written the code. It would be wonderful to be able to hand over a > "fuzzy" spec. and allow the contractor to develop open-ended based on it > and an interactive process. Is there any way to do this without getting > royally screwed other than trust and faith? > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs > Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:12 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! > > > Thanks for reminding me, kill his dog. :) > >> Very wise and rational advice. I was just going to say kill his dog. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org >> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] >> On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs >> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:00 AM >> To: NYPHP Talk >> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! >> >> >> Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a >> customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is >> how you prevent this in the future. >> >> Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress >> payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server where you can >> put the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they >> run into cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and >> just leave it there until they come back. If they want to hurry up >> you say, "great" and ask for some more progress money. >> >> If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there >> are two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: >> >> 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend >> credit is very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being >> paid, otherwise I cannot keep my commitments" >> >> 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see > >> what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress >> payments if they don't like it. >> >> For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have > >> to pay you, that you don't count. Have your family attorney send them > >> a letter demanding payment. If that does not work your attorney can >> escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter >> saying they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down. >> HOWEVER, >> it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to know that it >> will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you >> must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate >> instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this money comes >> in after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. >> >> >>> Hey Gals and Guys, >>> >>> I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I >>> am >> >>> looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. >>> I >> >>> spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very >>> nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished >>> product as well. >>> >>> The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was >>> supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months > >>> ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active >>> and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of >>> visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say >>> they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. >>> >>> The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over >>> the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to >>> acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a >>> Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the >>> only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. >>> Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. >>> >>> Any advice? >>> >>> -- >>> Tom O'Neill >>> tommyo at gmail.com _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Talk Mailing List >>> AMP Technology >>> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> http://www.nyphp.org >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kenneth Downs >> Secure Data Software >> 631-379-0010 >> ken at secdat.com >> PO Box 708 >> East Setauket, NY 11733 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk Mailing List >> AMP Technology >> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.nyphp.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk Mailing List >> AMP Technology >> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.nyphp.org >> > > > -- > Kenneth Downs > Secure Data Software > 631-379-0010 > ken at secdat.com > PO Box 708 > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From george at omniti.com Thu Dec 22 09:52:01 2005 From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:52:01 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AABD91.3070607@omniti.com> Thomas O'Neill wrote: >Hey Gals and Guys, > >I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am >looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I >spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very >nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished >product as well. > >The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was >supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months >ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active >and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of >visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say >they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > >The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over >the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to >acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a >Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the >only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. >Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. > >Any advice? > > Sue him. Depending on the amount, you may be able to do it in small claims court, where the process is extremely cheap, easy and does not require retaining professional counsel. George From rahmin at insite-out.com Thu Dec 22 10:36:59 2005 From: rahmin at insite-out.com (Rahmin Pavlovic) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:36:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AABD91.3070607@omniti.com> Message-ID: On 12/22/05 9:52 AM, "George Schlossnagle" wrote: > Sue him. Depending on the amount, you may be able to do it in small > claims court, where the process is extremely cheap, easy and does not > require retaining professional counsel. > Last I checked, the amount was $4k and under -- otherwise, you have to take full legal action. This isn't legal advice, but I would say some options would be to: a) send a legal letter stating something to the effect that you own your work until it has been fully purchased (giving you rights to take it down), b) remit them to a collection agency -- no one wants bad credit or harassment, c) take them to court. The truth is, a client can still refuse to pay after a court has ordered the client to do so -- there's little recourse if they continue to flat-out refuse to pay, just more bureaucracy -- so the most you can do is apply as much legal, financial and professional pressure within the law until they break and pay you. (Even if they don't, it's better that you pursue them as much as you can; it sets a precedent in a karmic sort of way -- the next client will be less likely to stiff you, and you'll have better experience setting up rules in advance, which also make you more valuable.) From mark at wildwoodinc.com Thu Dec 22 10:30:36 2005 From: mark at wildwoodinc.com (Mark Lassoff) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:30:36 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another extremely effective collection techniquie: Show-up. If the client is local and ducking your calls an emails, they obviously don't like confrontation. Showing up might result in a check. Do you have any ability to take the site down? You should have language in your agreement that say the site belongs to you until the final payment is made. Especially if the site is making money for your "client" he'd be very anxious to pay up if the site were taken down. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Thomas O'Neill [mailto:tommyo at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:17 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Hey Gals and Guys, I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished product as well. The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. Any advice? -- Tom O'Neill tommyo at gmail.com _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From codebowl at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 10:34:14 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:34:14 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <4471391104872910419@unknownmsgid> References: <4471391104872910419@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512220734q35fee4a9ue59d5bc072446e7d@mail.gmail.com> you have to be careful if your contract doesnt say the site is yours until payment is made and you take it down, he can get you for defacing his site and losing him profits. -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at wildwoodinc.com Thu Dec 22 10:36:33 2005 From: mark at wildwoodinc.com (Mark Lassoff) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:36:33 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512220734q35fee4a9ue59d5bc072446e7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Joesph is right. That is something to look for. It also underlines the fact that contracts should be both strong and enforceable. Its well worth the dough to have an attorney draw one up that is suited to your specific business and types of clients you deal with. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Crawford [mailto:codebowl at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:34 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! you have to be careful if your contract doesnt say the site is yours until payment is made and you take it down, he can get you for defacing his site and losing him profits. -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From papillion at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 10:36:44 2005 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:36:44 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <1888746049170123033@unknownmsgid> References: <1888746049170123033@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <5458518f0512220736w115b181fg696a98de3a27cc65@mail.gmail.com> Just wanted to jump in here about something Mark said in the message quoted below: If you have the ability to take the site down and are thinking about doing so I would definitely talk to an attorney before you do anything like that. A few months ago, I got stiffed on a $3200 contract and I was seriously considering doing the exact same thing. I found out though that, unless your contract has very specific language that allows you to do so, taking the site down can result in you being successfully sued. Especially if they are making money on it. Talk to an attorney before you do anything so drastic. It sucks not getting paid but being sued sucks more. Anthony Papillion Advanced Data Concepts On 12/22/05, Mark Lassoff wrote: > > Another extremely effective collection techniquie: Show-up. > > If the client is local and ducking your calls an emails, they obviously > don't like confrontation. Showing up might result in a check. > > Do you have any ability to take the site down? You should have language > in > your agreement that say the site belongs to you until the final payment is > made. Especially if the site is making money for your "client" he'd be > very > anxious to pay up if the site were taken down. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas O'Neill [mailto:tommyo at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:17 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! > > > Hey Gals and Guys, > > I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am > looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I > spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very > nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished > product as well. > > The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was > supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months > ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active > and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of > visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say > they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > > The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over > the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to > acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a > Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the > only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. > Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. > > Any advice? > > -- > Tom O'Neill > tommyo at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Anthony Papillion Phone: (918) 926-0139 ICQ: 96-698-595 CAN ONE VOICE CHANGE THE WORLD? http://www.one.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at plexpod.com Thu Dec 22 10:41:16 2005 From: andrew at plexpod.com (Andrew Yochum) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:41:16 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> References: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Message-ID: <20051222154116.GC9865@desario.homelinux.net> Kenneth's advice is very sound and level headed. I suggest always working under a written and signed agreement that details: - scope of work (spec based, time based, etc.) - milestones - deliverables (both from you and from the client) - timeline (maybe rough) - rates (hourly, daily, etc.) & expenses (licensing, etc.) and how they're handled (pre-approved budget, approved on-demand, etc) - payment schedule (on milestones, once a month, etc.) - late (such as 5% penalty per month) & cancellation fees (they want to back out) - who owns the code and how/when ownership will be transferred (copyright transfer) or license to use will be granted Sign it yourself and get them to sign it. But this just helps you support your case if it should happen again. I'd pursue Kenneth's suggestion of a lawyer, or small claims court. HTH, Andrew On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 06:59:49AM -0500, Kenneth Downs wrote: > Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a > customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is how > you prevent this in the future. > > Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress > payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server where you can put > the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they run into > cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and just leave it > there until they come back. If they want to hurry up you say, "great" and > ask for some more progress money. > > If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there are > two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: > > 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend credit is > very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being paid, otherwise I > cannot keep my commitments" > > 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see > what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress > payments if they don't like it. > > For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have to > pay you, that you don't count. Have your family attorney send them a > letter demanding payment. If that does not work your attorney can > escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter saying > they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down. HOWEVER, > it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to know that it > will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you > must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate > instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this money comes in > after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. > > > > Hey Gals and Guys, > > > > I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am > > looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I > > spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very > > nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished > > product as well. > > > > The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was > > supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months > > ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active > > and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of > > visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say > > they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > > > > The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over > > the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to > > acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a > > Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the > > only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. > > Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. > > > > Any advice? > > > > -- > > Tom O'Neill > > tommyo at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > > AMP Technology > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > > > > -- > Kenneth Downs > Secure Data Software > 631-379-0010 > ken at secdat.com > PO Box 708 > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org -- Andrew Yochum Plexpod andrew at plexpod.com 718-360-0879 From jeff.knight at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 11:06:58 2005 From: jeff.knight at gmail.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:06:58 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <20051222154116.GC9865@desario.homelinux.net> References: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <20051222154116.GC9865@desario.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910512220806n3be39fb3j3b8b0ae4922312de@mail.gmail.com> I'd suggest taking a look at the book Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines it has quite a bit of lawyer-written gobbledygook you can use as boilerplates for your own agreements. While it has a graphics perspective, the basic prinicples can be applied to any freelance work for hire. From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com Thu Dec 22 11:08:16 2005 From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:08:16 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <5458518f0512220736w115b181fg696a98de3a27cc65@mail.gmail.com> References: <1888746049170123033@unknownmsgid> <5458518f0512220736w115b181fg696a98de3a27cc65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43AACF70.6030103@caseysoftware.com> Anthony Papillion wrote: > A few months ago, I got stiffed on a $3200 contract and I was seriously > considering doing the exact same thing. I found out though that, unless > your contract has very specific language that allows you to do so, > taking the site down can result in you being successfully sued. > Especially if they are making money on it. Same case. Same dollar amount. Same client? hmmm... Yes, I have customer who has done the same thing. Unless your contract explicitly says something like "If you don't pay within N days, I take back my property" you'll regret even considering it. Potential damages, unauthorized access to systems, etc... just don't do it. Of course, if you can get an injunction preventing them from using it... My client makes an average of $10k/transaction and 8-10 transactions/month. And he's getting pissy over this tiny amount. Face it, some people are just punks. While you'd like to hurt their dog, you need to be bigger than that and learn from the experience. Just be sure to *never* sign a confidentiality agreement about the experience. You never know when you can save someone else a hassle... -- D. Keith Casey Jr. CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC http://CaseySoftware.com From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Dec 22 11:22:29 2005 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:22:29 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Message-ID: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> ... client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. Any advice? Well no legal advice -- that's for sure. A couple of thoughts which may be helpful: You could check with your local Small Business Administration office -- they often can give you some good ideas on how to deal with problems like this which are commonly faced by small businesses. Maybe sending them a certified letter with return receipt requested would be a good idea. I think it should have a pleasant tone -- perhaps suggesting that the client has been too busy and overlooked payment of the invoice. But, at least, don't put anything in it which could be (mis)construed as threatening or harassing. I would most definitely not put a threat to sue them in writing. (Again, this is only what I would do -- not legal advice). -- T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From mark at wildwoodinc.com Thu Dec 22 11:39:39 2005 From: mark at wildwoodinc.com (Mark Lassoff) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:39:39 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> Message-ID: With all due respect Tim--- How come when this comes up many of us find it appropriate to be pleasant and polite. Frankly, when a client doesn't pay for work, and arrogantly refuses to even acknowledge the debt, he is (in some states) committing a crime-- theft of service. The behavior is immoral, unethical and downright rotten. I think the appropriate way to react-- within the bounds of ethics and the law-- is to aggressively pursue what is due to you. Why do credit card companies, banks, etc., have such aggressive collection practices? Because they work. My $.02. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Tim Gales [mailto:tgales at tgaconnect.com] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:22 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! ... client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. Any advice? Well no legal advice -- that's for sure. A couple of thoughts which may be helpful: You could check with your local Small Business Administration office -- they often can give you some good ideas on how to deal with problems like this which are commonly faced by small businesses. Maybe sending them a certified letter with return receipt requested would be a good idea. I think it should have a pleasant tone -- perhaps suggesting that the client has been too busy and overlooked payment of the invoice. But, at least, don't put anything in it which could be (mis)construed as threatening or harassing. I would most definitely not put a threat to sue them in writing. (Again, this is only what I would do -- not legal advice). -- T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org __________ NOD32 1.1333 (20051222) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From jbaltz at altzman.com Thu Dec 22 12:06:57 2005 From: jbaltz at altzman.com (Jerry B. Altzman) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:06:57 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <002301c606f2$2868b1c0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> References: <002301c606f2$2868b1c0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> Message-ID: <43AADD31.4010006@altzman.com> On 12/22/2005 7:20 AM, Cliff Hirsch wrote: > On the flip side, I occasionally would like to outsource "pieces" but am > always nervous unless I have a REALLY concrete spec. And most often, by > the time I have written a spec to the level of detail required, I've > written the code. It would be wonderful to be able to hand over a > "fuzzy" spec. and allow the contractor to develop open-ended based on it Having done a lot of this type of work, typically even if the spec is detailed, there are plenty of other little details that you're leaving out, so there's still value in sending it out. > and an interactive process. Is there any way to do this without getting It's always an interactive process, unless your specs are written in stone by the finger of Dog and handed down from atop a smoke-covered desert mountain. (In fact, the idea of iterative specs is the cornerstone of all those "agile" software development dogmata.) > royally screwed other than trust and faith? If the guy is "good", trust and faith is enough and the contract is superfluous. He does the work, and you pay him. If the guy is "bad", trust and faith *and* a contract won't be enough in any case. Much of the contracting world is based on trust; you live and die by it. I've recently been an observer to a dispute between a contractor and his client; the contractor simply failed to deliver repeatedly. I will decline to make further commentary other than to say that I was neither the client nor the contractor. //jbaltz -- jerry b. altzman jbaltz at altzman.com KE3ML thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe. From shiflett at php.net Thu Dec 22 12:22:26 2005 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:22:26 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AAE0D2.8090301@php.net> Mark Lassoff wrote: > How come when this comes up many of us find it appropriate to be > pleasant and polite. I think Tim is trying to promote professionalism, and this is appropriate in any business situation. It also applies directly to his recommendation of sending a letter with a return receipt. This provides evidence of a sincere effort to resolve the situation amicably if and when more aggressive actions become necessary. Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ From cliff at pinestream.com Thu Dec 22 12:46:59 2005 From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:46:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAE0D2.8090301@php.net> Message-ID: <001001c6071f$b55e13e0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> But it sounds like a sincere effort was already made. The client could have even said, "your work sucked so bad it's not worth the paper I wipe my ass with." But the client didn't. Of course, all the serious legal suggestions are appropriate; however, if it were a different era and I had an Uncle Vinny, I think I'd rather just have his kneecaps broken. Oh the satisfaction. Why hurt a harmless dog? Projects gone sour are one thing, stealing is another... Go after the guy to the full extent of the law -- remember, you're not Bush. -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chris Shiflett Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 12:22 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Mark Lassoff wrote: > How come when this comes up many of us find it appropriate to be > pleasant and polite. I think Tim is trying to promote professionalism, and this is appropriate in any business situation. It also applies directly to his recommendation of sending a letter with a return receipt. This provides evidence of a sincere effort to resolve the situation amicably if and when more aggressive actions become necessary. Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From rahmin at insite-out.com Thu Dec 22 12:57:35 2005 From: rahmin at insite-out.com (Rahmin Pavlovic) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:57:35 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAE0D2.8090301@php.net> Message-ID: On 12/22/05 12:22 PM, "Chris Shiflett" wrote: > It also applies directly to his recommendation of sending a letter with > a return receipt. This provides evidence of a sincere effort to resolve > the situation amicably if and when more aggressive actions become necessary. > Yes. I also read once that FedEx is more likely to be opened than certified USPS, as they also keep records. From suzerain at suzerain.com Thu Dec 22 12:59:16 2005 From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Antony Vose) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:59:16 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAE0D2.8090301@php.net> References: <43AAE0D2.8090301@php.net> Message-ID: >Mark Lassoff wrote: >> How come when this comes up many of us find it appropriate to be > > pleasant and polite. I have experienced this in the past, and have been working as a contractor for 10+ years. In one case, I had a very large client who refused to pay money on a job even after something was delivered in full. The president of the company wanted, at that point, some changes made to the project (for free) which would have effectively meant ripping it apart and reworking not only programming, but also design. And this was on a site that had already been very well received by the public. I was young and impetuous and I just ripped down the content management tools after getting in a heated, expletive-riddled argument with him, figuring that it wasn't impacting the customer's view of everything, only the client's ability to keep his information current. Needless to say, this got some results, but it also almost got my team in a lot of trouble (i.e., sued). Since this was a large client, they actually hired a consultant to come in and mediate the dispute and figure out what went wrong. By that time, I was not willing to continue work on the job, so we ended up parting ways, and we got paid some (but not all) of what we were owed. So my strategy got me something, but not everything. Is there a way that could have gotten me everything? Probably, yes. I think now that I am older...it would take me longer before I declared war on a client. I don't know what the status of the original poster's project and relationship are, but it may not yet be time to get to that point, and until you get to that point, you should always be pleasant and polite. (Actually, I'd argue that pleasant and polite is even a good policy AFTER you're at the point of contemplating lawsuits and dog killing.) I've also been on the other end, by the way. I've had contractors that I hired not deliver me things, and even just disappear -- without even responding to emails. This is exacerbating, but it happens...they don't have something done, they vastly underestimated effort, they think they can't do it or maybe they got a better gig, so rather than have that discussion with me, they just avoid the conflict and ignore me. Whether you are the consultant or the client, then, I think the same rules apply. Think this way: the only way to get someone to give you what you want is to make them want to give it to you. So I would exhaust every 'nice' avenue there was in an effort to get the money before I went postal, because once you getting nasty is a bridge that collapses after you cross it, and it's extremely difficult to ever get back to the 'nice' side of the river once you're on the other side. But, if those attempts all fail...invoking a collection agency or lawyer might be the only way, and I guess the decision to do that depends on how much money it is and how important that sum is to you. Cheers, -- Marc Antony Vose http://www.suzerain.com/ The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. -- Nietzsche From jim at bizcomputinginc.com Thu Dec 22 13:13:38 2005 From: jim at bizcomputinginc.com (Jim Hendricks) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:13:38 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> Message-ID: <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> Years ago the company I worked for dealt with this very situation. The 1st time it happened, they disabled the application but provided information to the company as to how to access their data. They sued, and the cost of defense was too much. My company settled out of court by re-activating the system and of all things paying like 5k. They never collected, and with the settlement, ended up costing themselves to develop the app! From that point on they had much more explicit language in their contracts, but never had to deactivate an application again. This was due to a more creative solution. Errors. Simply introduce code which once a set date is hit, cause the application to throw an error in a key area of the application. When the customer calls to have it fixed, you say not until I receive payment for the app development, and advance payment for the estimated time to correct the "error". Actual error correction was to remove this payment trap. Tim Gales wrote: >... client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was >supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months >ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active >and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of >visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say >they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > >The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over >the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to >acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a >Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the >only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. >Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. > >Any advice? > >Well no legal advice -- that's for sure. > >A couple of thoughts which may be helpful: > >You could check with your local Small Business Administration office -- >they often can give you some good ideas on how to deal with problems >like this which are commonly faced by small businesses. > >Maybe sending them a certified letter with return receipt requested >would be a good idea. I think it should have a pleasant tone -- >perhaps suggesting that the client has been too busy and overlooked >payment of the invoice. > >But, at least, don't put anything in it which could be (mis)construed as >threatening or harassing. I would most definitely not put a threat to >sue them in writing. (Again, this is only what I would do -- not >legal advice). > > > From dmintz at davidmintz.org Thu Dec 22 13:18:14 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:18:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <001001c6071f$b55e13e0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> References: <001001c6071f$b55e13e0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Cliff Hirsch wrote: > however, if it were a different era and I > had an Uncle Vinny, I think I'd rather just have his kneecaps broken. Oh > the satisfaction. Why hurt a harmless dog? There's something about people stiffing you that triggers a certain variety of rage that is truly unique, in my experience. I have never been big on macho aggression, but this sort of thing makes me very nearly understand why a person could want to hurt somebody. A homo sapiens, that is, not an innocent dog. > > Projects gone sour are one thing, stealing is another... Go after the > guy to the full extent of the law -- remember, you're not Bush. > Who knows, maybe -- just maybe -- even he (and his handlers and cronies) might eventually be held accountable for their crimes, like what's-its, Libby. PS -- you always have the option of retaining Vernon T. Bludgeon Consulting: http://vernontbludgeon.com/ --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com Thu Dec 22 13:25:28 2005 From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:25:28 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> Message-ID: <43AAEF98.50209@caseysoftware.com> Jim Hendricks wrote: > Errors. Simply introduce code which > once a set date is hit, cause the application to throw an error in a key > area of the application. When the customer calls to have it fixed, you > say not until I receive payment for the app development, and advance > payment for the estimated time to correct the "error". Actual error > correction was to remove this payment trap. This is probably just semantics, but I think this is risky. It's one thing to have an "auto-expiration" but it's totally different about leaving critical "errors" in the system, let alone adding them. I will go with the auto-expiration from here on out though. ;) -- D. Keith Casey Jr. CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC http://CaseySoftware.com From jim at bizcomputinginc.com Thu Dec 22 13:34:25 2005 From: jim at bizcomputinginc.com (Jim Hendricks) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:34:25 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAEF98.50209@caseysoftware.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> <43AAEF98.50209@caseysoftware.com> Message-ID: <43AAF1B1.4070702@bizcomputinginc.com> In a PHP environment where your code is exposed, your probably right on the risk. The error is not truely an error, but an error of your own made to look convincing. I've effectively used this method since I have free lanced, but not in a PHP environment. The largest part of the risk as I see it is the discovery that the error was intentional. Without access to the code, this risk is quite low. With access to the code, the risk is as high as the technical skills of your client, or their willingness to pay to have a technical person review your code. The timeout idea would only be useful if it is written into the contract, and is sufficiently spread throughout the code and based on encrypted/obfuscated data. Otherwise it's a cake walk to remove from the code. Jim Keith Casey wrote: >Jim Hendricks wrote: > > >>Errors. Simply introduce code which >>once a set date is hit, cause the application to throw an error in a key >>area of the application. When the customer calls to have it fixed, you >>say not until I receive payment for the app development, and advance >>payment for the estimated time to correct the "error". Actual error >>correction was to remove this payment trap. >> >> > >This is probably just semantics, but I think this is risky. > >It's one thing to have an "auto-expiration" but it's totally different >about leaving critical "errors" in the system, let alone adding them. > >I will go with the auto-expiration from here on out though. ;) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Dec 22 14:27:50 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:27:50 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051222192750.GA21233@panix.com> Howdy: As others have mentioned, small claims court, as long as your claim is small enough, is piece of cake. Otherwise, you'll need a real lawyer. Enforcement of unpaid judgements is done via marshalls and/or sherrifs depending on the jurisdiction. If you're in the NY area, I can recommend a good attorney. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 15:36:22 2005 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:36:22 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> Message-ID: <330532b60512221236j4b1b56b2ueab3d552c8843e1@mail.gmail.com> On 12/22/05, Tim Gales wrote: > > Any advice? Yeah. You got three different ways to solve your problem, and both include additional effort which I write off as "deadbeat protection": 1) Require final payment *before* delivery of the final deliverable. I put our code projects on a development server that the client can access and test from the front-side, so they know that the code actually works and does what it is supposed to. No payment? No code. This one is the simplest one. 2) Require a purchase order before starting the project. That should provide just enough commitment from the client that they are now legally liable if they fail to pay after the terms of that purchase order are met. 3) Take 40% up front, 40% as sign off (that means they sign a document accepting that you are complete and the software does what it is supposed to), and then the final 20% when it is running on their servers. This minimizes your exposure, but you can still get stiffed. Ultimately, you have a soft good, and the second it is out of your hands it should be considered gone forever. IMHO being pleasant and polite are absolutely not a requirement when someone is ripping you off. But regardless of your manners, you need to take steps to ensure you have a way to protect yourself from those that take your generosity and helpful nature for granted, and then take your product without paying in full. -- Mitch Pirtle Joomla! Core Developer Open Source Matters From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 15:47:35 2005 From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:47:35 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: <001001c6071f$b55e13e0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> Message-ID: <330532b60512221247l773cfefdt3c4446314db480e8@mail.gmail.com> On 12/22/05, David Mintz wrote: > PS -- you always have the option of retaining Vernon T. Bludgeon > Consulting: http://vernontbludgeon.com/ Darn you David, made me squirt egg nog out of my nose from laughing so hard. -- Mitch Pirtle Joomla! Core Developer Open Source Matters From shiflett at php.net Thu Dec 22 15:50:41 2005 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:50:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <330532b60512221247l773cfefdt3c4446314db480e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <001001c6071f$b55e13e0$0aa8a8c0@cliff> <330532b60512221247l773cfefdt3c4446314db480e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43AB11A1.8020502@php.net> Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > PS -- you always have the option of retaining Vernon T. Bludgeon > > Consulting: http://vernontbludgeon.com/ > > > Darn you David, made me squirt egg nog out of my nose from laughing > so hard. Hey, I've got the same shirt as that guy (Durty Nelly's). Maybe I should switch careers - sounds fun. :-) Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com Thu Dec 22 18:13:14 2005 From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:13:14 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! References: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <20051222154116.GC9865@desario.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <011001c6074d$499a4100$6401a8c0@ced> LOL http://vernontbludgeon.com/consultants.html Dave, you need to look a wee bit more pissed off. ^_^ "Our specially trained consultants are here to help... Kick some Ass!!! (While laughing)" From Consult at CovenantEDesign.com Thu Dec 22 20:22:34 2005 From: Consult at CovenantEDesign.com (CED) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:22:34 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! References: <36774.38.117.147.25.1135252789.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <20051222154116.GC9865@desario.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <003801c6075f$5aabe4a0$1519a8c0@ced> Has anyopne dropped a plug for... ^%^%^#$%^#$ ZEND SafeGuard Suite ^%^%^#$%^#$ The ultimate in protection for you and your loved ones (Applications that is) =D http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-safeguard-suite.php It's pretty cool, check it out. Edward JS Prevost II Senior Applications Specialist Student Information System Project, Data-Migration Lead Albany Medical College 518-262-2743 518-331-5061 Edward.Prevost at amc.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Yochum" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! Kenneth's advice is very sound and level headed. I suggest always working under a written and signed agreement that details: - scope of work (spec based, time based, etc.) - milestones - deliverables (both from you and from the client) - timeline (maybe rough) - rates (hourly, daily, etc.) & expenses (licensing, etc.) and how they're handled (pre-approved budget, approved on-demand, etc) - payment schedule (on milestones, once a month, etc.) - late (such as 5% penalty per month) & cancellation fees (they want to back out) - who owns the code and how/when ownership will be transferred (copyright transfer) or license to use will be granted Sign it yourself and get them to sign it. But this just helps you support your case if it should happen again. I'd pursue Kenneth's suggestion of a lawyer, or small claims court. HTH, Andrew On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 06:59:49AM -0500, Kenneth Downs wrote: > Actually a customer is somebody who pays for things, so this is not a > customer, they are somebody you allowed to steal from you. Here is how > you prevent this in the future. > > Never deliver a system without payment in full, and you get progress > payments as you go. this means you need a W-I-P server where you can put > the drafts for them to see, but which they cannot get. If they run into > cash problems and want to slow down you say "great", and just leave it > there until they come back. If they want to hurry up you say, "great" and > ask for some more progress money. > > If they protest that they don't want to pay too much up front, there are > two things you must do so that each of you is minimizing risk: > > 1) State very clearly something like this "My ability to extend credit is > very limited, I cannot do more than $X of work w/o being paid, otherwise I > cannot keep my commitments" > > 2) Make sure to give frequent updates to the WIP site so they can see > what they are paying for, this lets them protest and stop progress > payments if they don't like it. > > For the current situation, they obviously believe that they don't have to > pay you, that you don't count. Have your family attorney send them a > letter demanding payment. If that does not work your attorney can > escalate, and you can probably send their hosting company a letter saying > they are hosting an illegal site and ask them to take it down. HOWEVER, > it is very important when you pursue this legal stuff to know that it > will take about 30-60 minutes every 2-4 weeks, and in the meantime you > must not think about these guys, they'll poison your mind, concentrate > instead on new jobs and getting paid for those. When this money comes in > after 3-6 months it will be like a bonus. > > > > Hey Gals and Guys, > > > > I have noticed that there are alot of freelancers on the list and I am > > looking for a little advice. I have a client that is being a pain. I > > spent alot of time developing a site for them and it turned out very > > nice in my opinion. The client seemed very happy with the finished > > product as well. > > > > The client paid about 1/3 of the cost of the site up front and was > > supposed to pay the balance on delivery. I delivered the site months > > ago and have not received further payment. The site is still active > > and it has been receiving alot of traffic. They receive hundreds of > > visits a day and many users submitting information. Needless to say > > they are doing business with the site and making a profit from it. > > > > The owner of the site has not returned my many calls and emails over > > the past two months. I am trying to figure out how to get him to > > acknowledge me and hopefully pay up! I have a full time job as a > > Java/PHP/.NET programmer so I don't do freelance often. This was the > > only project I have done in years and it was as a favor to a friend. > > Now I regret doing it at all and feel that I was taken advantage of. > > > > Any advice? > > > > -- > > Tom O'Neill > > tommyo at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > > AMP Technology > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > > > > -- > Kenneth Downs > Secure Data Software > 631-379-0010 > ken at secdat.com > PO Box 708 > East Setauket, NY 11733 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org -- Andrew Yochum Plexpod andrew at plexpod.com 718-360-0879 _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Mailing List AMP Technology Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.nyphp.org From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Dec 22 21:47:57 2005 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 21:47:57 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AB655D.3060600@tgaconnect.com> Rahmin Pavlovic wrote: > On 12/22/05 12:22 PM, "Chris Shiflett" wrote: > > >>It also applies directly to his recommendation of sending a letter with >>a return receipt. This provides evidence of a sincere effort to resolve >>the situation amicably if and when more aggressive actions become necessary. >> > > > Yes. I also read once that FedEx is more likely to be opened than certified > USPS, as they also keep records. Either way you want to validate the debt. That is, you want to make sure the client knows how much he owes and for what, and give him 30 days to dispute it. If the client is real weasel, he might claim that he never got an invoice -- and then after you invoice him (again) start disputing the fee(s) charged. It is much easier to get a legal ruling in your favor, if you have a valid debt to begin with -- or at least that is my understanding. (Of course, since I am not a lawyer, my understanding of this sort of thing should be taken with a 'grain of salt') -- T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From ps at pswebcode.com Thu Dec 22 22:31:38 2005 From: ps at pswebcode.com (Peter Sawczynec) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:31:38 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Everyone Enjoix Rum San Croix Message-ID: <008b01c60771$65a13380$68e4a144@Rubicon> Abounding happiness pervading these days, and my objects by reference, all written with care... When out through my application portal who else but... Rasmus and Zend. Calling with glee, OO, OO, OO and to all a a mod_rewrite, a wonderful mod_rewrite. With a PHP Accelerator. And good serialization to you! Warmest regards, Peter Sawczynec, Technology Director PSWebcode ps at pswebcode.com 718.796.1951 From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com Thu Dec 22 23:02:17 2005 From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:02:17 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> Message-ID: <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> somebody who might not regret it once wrote: : >This was due to a more creative solution. Errors. Simply introduce code which >once a set date is hit, cause the application to throw an error in a key >area of the application. When the customer calls to have it fixed, you >say not until I receive payment for the app development, and advance >payment for the estimated time to correct the "error". Actual error >correction was to remove this payment trap. > Sorry but this is a terrible idea. Not only is it probably fraudulent, but it gives the world valid excuses for not paying you (errors). It also validates your (bad) reputation, which otherwise may have remained at the rumor / disgruntled cheapskate stage. IMHO never, ever compromise your integrity like this. Mitch offered excellent advice above IMHO, as did Kenneth Downs with his work-in-progress process.I agree in theory with Andrew's suggestions about specs but I also know that a really detailed spec is a wonderful vehicle for screwing people out of their wages. Lawyers get paid to argue so the more detail subject to interpreattion the higher the cheat ceiling. The whole issue for me is one of professionalism both in work and business relationship. Stay the course, hold the line, etc. all apply here. Sure it might hurt now but it's nothing personal, IT'S JUST BUSINESS. Whether you want to believe it or not, a whole of the business world is about cheating other players out of their earned share. So, a bunch of IF's seem to apply here. Just like "if you didn't make a backup before your host went bankrupt, it's not the host's fault" we can say: - if you never had a plan to deal with non-payers, you haven't prepared your business properly. - if you had too many eggs in one basket, you weren't properly financed - if you're overheated emotionally by the gall of the guy, you haven't the temperament for business And perhaps most poignantly, if you don't know what to do to "influence" this guy to pay you the agreed fee, GAME OVER. You lose. Probably sounds too harsh but it is true - if he can "get away with it" while working within the "system", then you lost and need to learn from it. And that includes his being legally wrong and you legally correct, yet insufficiently funded to pursue him successfully. Many, many business people play those odds every day. If you keep losing you are not doing yourself any favors staying in business (and you ARE helping the bottom line of that portion of the marketplace that is comprised of bottom-feeding scum and scammers). It's really not as negative as it may sound... just realistic. I am 100% sure that some creative problem solving could help you, IF you were properly prepared to "stay the course". I once had a client $XX,000 behind, making money with my work and ignoring my bills. It went to almost $XXX,000 before I collected. The reason I was able to collect in full was because except for recurring "past due" notices and the like (including usurious 21% interest penalties I added unsuccessfully), I didn't start a war. Instead I sought ways to leverage that $40k value he was enjoying against the additional debt he would subsequently incur with further development. Ater all, if he was making cash off my work and didn't have to pay me (perhaps thinking he could shut me out at any moment) he was a sucker for more. By the time we got close to 6 figures it was very clear that he had a larger than six figure liability (equivalent to the value of the system) if I was not satisfied. One day I required payment in full with no compromise and it was a simple business decision for him to pay me promptly, as it was for me to subsequently exit from any further involvement. Perhaps someone on this list knows the client. I consider him a good reference, and a poor-quality client. As for small claims, I live by the truth that *nothing* costs less than $5k, regardless of price. Even if the market says $2k it's not true... everything costs more than $5k to manage should things go even slightly wrong. Don't take any job that doesn't generate at least $5k in profits or you are assuming risk in the market place simply because there are so many bottom-feeders out there scamming in the under $5k market where the costs of doing business exceed the value. It's a game and you should only play it if you are willing to assume the risk or have another "angle" (like a brother who's a really aggressive lawyer :-) Of course being willing to take the risk as a startup counts as a valid reason to take on the work, but then you can't really complain when you get cheated because you took the risk, right? There are plenty of forums for complaing that some people in this world suck. -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com --"if you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance" From tommyo at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 23:22:33 2005 From: tommyo at gmail.com (Thomas O'Neill) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:22:33 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: Thank you everyone for the excellent responses. I think I will just cut my losses. I will continue to contact the client to attempt to collect the debt but I will definitely not bother discontinuing service. Sounds like it could turn out to be more of a headache then it's worth. I did use a ioncube's encoder on the php files so if the client wants any changes outside of the things they can do with the custom CMS or changing the smarty templates they will have to come to me. I guess the lesson learned is to ask for periodic payments. And to not deliver the final product with out payment. I really appreciate all the advice. Once again this list has proved to be very, very valuable. Thank you! TOM From ken at secdat.com Fri Dec 23 07:45:48 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:45:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <38388.38.117.147.25.1135341948.squirrel@38.117.147.25> excellent post. > somebody who might not regret it once wrote: : > >>This was due to a more creative solution. Errors. Simply introduce code >> which >>once a set date is hit, cause the application to throw an error in a key >>area of the application. When the customer calls to have it fixed, you >>say not until I receive payment for the app development, and advance >>payment for the estimated time to correct the "error". Actual error >>correction was to remove this payment trap. >> > > Sorry but this is a terrible idea. Not only is it probably fraudulent, > but it gives the world valid excuses for not paying you (errors). It > also validates your (bad) reputation, which otherwise may have remained > at the rumor / disgruntled cheapskate stage. IMHO never, ever compromise > your integrity like this. > > Mitch offered excellent advice above IMHO, as did Kenneth Downs with his > work-in-progress process.I agree in theory with Andrew's suggestions > about specs but I also know that a really detailed spec is a wonderful > vehicle for screwing people out of their wages. Lawyers get paid to > argue so the more detail subject to interpreattion the higher the cheat > ceiling. > > The whole issue for me is one of professionalism both in work and > business relationship. Stay the course, hold the line, etc. all apply > here. Sure it might hurt now but it's nothing personal, IT'S JUST > BUSINESS. Whether you want to believe it or not, a whole of the business > world is about cheating other players out of their earned share. > > So, a bunch of IF's seem to apply here. Just like "if you didn't make a > backup before your host went bankrupt, it's not the host's fault" we can > say: > - if you never had a plan to deal with non-payers, you haven't prepared > your business properly. > - if you had too many eggs in one basket, you weren't properly financed > - if you're overheated emotionally by the gall of the guy, you haven't > the temperament for business > > And perhaps most poignantly, if you don't know what to do to "influence" > this guy to pay you the agreed fee, GAME OVER. You lose. > > Probably sounds too harsh but it is true - if he can "get away with it" > while working within the "system", then you lost and need to learn from > it. And that includes his being legally wrong and you legally correct, > yet insufficiently funded to pursue him successfully. Many, many > business people play those odds every day. If you keep losing you are > not doing yourself any favors staying in business (and you ARE helping > the bottom line of that portion of the marketplace that is comprised of > bottom-feeding scum and scammers). > > It's really not as negative as it may sound... just realistic. I am 100% > sure that some creative problem solving could help you, IF you were > properly prepared to "stay the course". I once had a client $XX,000 > behind, making money with my work and ignoring my bills. It went to > almost $XXX,000 before I collected. The reason I was able to collect in > full was because except for recurring "past due" notices and the like > (including usurious 21% interest penalties I added unsuccessfully), I > didn't start a war. Instead I sought ways to leverage that $40k value he > was enjoying against the additional debt he would subsequently incur > with further development. Ater all, if he was making cash off my work > and didn't have to pay me (perhaps thinking he could shut me out at any > moment) he was a sucker for more. By the time we got close to 6 figures > it was very clear that he had a larger than six figure liability > (equivalent to the value of the system) if I was not satisfied. One day > I required payment in full with no compromise and it was a simple > business decision for him to pay me promptly, as it was for me to > subsequently exit from any further involvement. Perhaps someone on this > list knows the client. I consider him a good reference, and a > poor-quality client. > > As for small claims, I live by the truth that *nothing* costs less than > $5k, regardless of price. Even if the market says $2k it's not true... > everything costs more than $5k to manage should things go even slightly > wrong. Don't take any job that doesn't generate at least $5k in profits > or you are assuming risk in the market place simply because there are so > many bottom-feeders out there scamming in the under $5k market where the > costs of doing business exceed the value. It's a game and you should > only play it if you are willing to assume the risk or have another > "angle" (like a brother who's a really aggressive lawyer :-) Of course > being willing to take the risk as a startup counts as a valid reason to > take on the work, but then you can't really complain when you get > cheated because you took the risk, right? There are plenty of forums for > complaing that some people in this world suck. > > -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com --"if you think education is > expensive, you should try ignorance" > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From enolists at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 17:53:19 2005 From: enolists at gmail.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:53:19 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: > > As for small claims, I live by the truth that *nothing* costs less than > $5k, regardless of price. Even if the market says $2k it's not true... > everything costs more than $5k to manage should things go even slightly > wrong. This is untrue. There is a great deal of good work in the small project sector, but it takes experience to pick out the ones that will be 'good clients'. I've had my issues with horrible clients (one's that still send threatening email and voice mails to this day), and I generally chalked it up to experience. In that past year alone, I've had at least 20 sub-$5k. They were quick, easy, paid on time or even (gasp!) early - as in 100% up front. I'm a big fan of being careful, drawing up a solid contract, keeping a lawyer on retainer, etc. But the idea that anyone with a project under $5k is a swindler is a horrible way to look at our business and is self-perpetuating. After 7 years in the business, I can honestly say that some of my BEST clients could never afford someone with a 5 figure minimum. And they come early and often. Also, don't be mistaken, my hourly wage is correctly expensive, as in, high enough to scare away those looking for an intricate site for $500 and low enough for a serious client/professional to afford. What becomes largely important when fending for yourself (freelance) is that you know how to pick a client. Just like a big-budget company would be smart to give you a small BS gig to test you, you should consider the same. You do a small part of a larger project, and pay close attention to the interaction. How early and completely did they pay? What changes were they adamant about? How well did they understand your timing, pricing and process? How did they feel about your paperwork (contracts, specs, etc)? Did they treat you as a professional or a hack? Did they call you at 3am to complain about pixels? I've known incredibly successful managers who wouldn't hire someone until they've had a solid night of drinking between them. This is a similar idea. Getting to know someone before introducing them to your wife. In business we tend to forget that we're dealing with people. The swine out there make this plenty easy. I'm proud to say that of all my clients (about 15 regular clients, internationally) have no need for contracts regardless of the size of the project. Sure, projects that make it to the high 5/6 figure level include contracts, but that's mutual protection for all parties involved (including the likely investors). Otherwise, I send invoices so they can report for tax time, and I write proposals for their clients, but my relationship with MY clients are solid. We've chosen each other as we would choose a friend. Reliable and honest. This, to me, is the ideal way to do business, and better yet, to live (which freelancing tends to cross borders with regularly). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com Fri Dec 23 22:12:49 2005 From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:12:49 -0800 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <31376-31212@sneakemail.com> Mark Armendariz enolists-at-gmail.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: > As for small claims, I live by the truth that *nothing* costs less > than > $5k, regardless of price. Even if the market says $2k it's not > true... > everything costs more than $5k to manage should things go even > slightly > wrong. > > > This is untrue. There is a great deal of good work in the small > project sector, but it takes experience to pick out the ones that will > be 'good clients'. I've had my issues with horrible clients (one's > that still send threatening email and voice mails to this day), and I > generally chalked it up to experience. In that past year alone, I've > had at least 20 sub-$5k. They were quick, easy, paid on time or even > (gasp!) early - as in 100% up front. > Hmm.. after reading your post I think perhaps we are miscommunicating. It sounds like those "quick, easy, paid on time" projets of yours are exactly the kind I call "$5k projects". Had they not been as quick as anticipated, or paid on time, they would have caused hassle you would have had to reconsider due to the cost of pursuit. Lucky you there were no issues. Or perhaps it was not luck: > I'm a big fan of being careful, drawing up a solid contract, keeping a > lawyer on retainer, etc. How careful can one be and especially with contracts, for a deal that earns less than $5k? Not with my lawyers nor with my hourly. That was partly my point. Of course it is my *personal* ruleof thumb about the $5k mark... it might be different for different situations. > But the idea that anyone with a project under $5k is a swindler is a > horrible way to look at our business and is self-perpetuating. Ummm... I didn't intend to imply that. However I do believe there are *many* business people in that market who I would suggest have a business model that monetizes the channel at least as much as the customer. That means they seek to make money off the various players and not just the client. Sometimes they only win work via low bid, and monetize the channel via methods such as those described. > After 7 years in the business, I can honestly say that some of my BEST > clients could never afford someone with a 5 figure minimum. And they > come early and often. This also belies the truth. They come often implies they are repeats. Repeats are valuable - everyone agrees. They have a relatively low overhead as clients. So doesn't that mean it is worthwhile to take on some risk with the first project, because you are banking on repeat (lower overhead) business? That was exactly my point prior.. and a decent approach imho. However, that initial sub-$5k project, on my books, is a break even or a loss leader. Perhaps I was to colorful in my descriptions, but I feel we don't disagree. -=john andrews http://www.seo-fun.com From yournway at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 05:39:08 2005 From: yournway at gmail.com (Alberto dos Santos) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:39:08 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Freelance PHP gig Not Paying up! In-Reply-To: References: <43AAD2C5.5050204@tgaconnect.com> <43AAECD2.7080203@bizcomputinginc.com> <8826-04620@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On 23/12/05, Mark Armendariz wrote: > > > I've known incredibly successful managers who wouldn't hire someone until > they've had a solid night of drinking between them. This is a similar > idea. Getting to know someone before introducing them to your wife. True, very true. In business we tend to forget that we're dealing with people. The swine out > there make this plenty easy. I'm proud to say that of all my clients (about > 15 regular clients, internationally) have no need for contracts regardless > of the size of the project. Sure, projects that make it to the high 5/6 > figure level include contracts, but that's mutual protection for all parties > involved (including the likely investors). Otherwise, I send invoices so > they can report for tax time, and I write proposals for their clients, but > my relationship with MY clients are solid. We've chosen each other as we > would choose a friend. Reliable and honest. This, to me, is the ideal way > to do business, and better yet, to live (which freelancing tends to cross > borders with regularly). Here, here. I live by this same rule, and although it's not easy and not an easy way to multimillion euros of business, assures me that when I do something I really get paid. -- Alberto dos Santos Consultor em TI IT Consultant http://www.yournway.com A internet ? sua maneira. The Internet your own way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Dec 24 13:44:41 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:44:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP in SecurityFocus #327 Message-ID: <20051224184234.3E303670C20@mailspool3.panix.com> These summaries are available online RSS: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.xml HTML: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.html Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #327 Holy cow! PHP applications account for 72% of the announcements this week! APPLICATIONS USING PHP ---------------------- Drupal Image Upload HTML Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15663 Drupal View User Profile Authorization Bypass Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15674 PBLang Bulletin Board System Multiple HTML Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15573 Athena PHP Website Administration Remote File Include Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15574 PHPGreetz Remote File Include Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15575 Q-News Remote File Include Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15576 Enterprise Connector SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15578 Zainu SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15579 Babe Logger SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15580 Top Music Module SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15581 PHPWordPress Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15582 Bedeng PSP SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15583 Nelogic Nephp Publisher SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15584 Softbiz Resource Repository Script SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15585 BerliOS SourceWell SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15586 AllWeb Search SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15587 K-Search SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15588 EdmoBBS SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15589 JBB SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15590 UGroup SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15591 ShockBoard Offset Parameter SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15592 Netzbrett P_Entry Parameter SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15593 SimpleBBS Search Module Parameters SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15594 ADC2000 NG Pro SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15595 Simple Document Management System SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15596 Nicecoder iDesk FAQ.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15597 PDJK-support Suite Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15598 Randshop Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15599 FreeWebStat Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15601 PHP Web Statistik Content Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15603 Helpdesk Issue Manager Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15604 WebCalendar Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15606 WebCalendar Export_Handler.PHP File Corruption Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15608 GuppY Error.PHP Remote File Include and Command Execution Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15609 GuppY Multiple Local File Include and Information Disclosure Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15610 PHP Doc System Local File Include Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15611 SearchSolutions Multiple Products Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15612 Gallery Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15614 PHP Upload Center Index.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15621 PHP Upload Center Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15626 Fantastic Scripts Fantastic News News.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15622 Xaraya Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15623 DotClear Unspecified Trackback Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15624 DotClear Session.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15667 DMANews Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15628 DRZES HMS Register_domain.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15630 DRZES HMS Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15644 Entergal MX Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15631 BosDates Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15632 Post Affiliate Pro Index.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15633 GhostScripter Amazon Shop Search.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15634 KBase Express Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15635 ltwCalendar Calendar.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15636 Orca Knowledgebase Knowledgebase.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15637 Orca Blog Blog.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15638 Orca Ringmaker Ringmaker.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15639 FAQ System Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15640 Survey System Survey.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15641 N-13 News SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15643 SocketKB Index.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15650 PHPAlbum Local File Include Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15651 Softbiz B2B Trading Marketplace Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15652 Softbiz FAQ Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15653 Atlantis Knowledge Base Search.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15654 FAQRing Answer.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15655 WSN Knowledge Base Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15656 O-Kiraku Nikki Nikki.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15657 88Scripts Event Calendar Index.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15658 Instant Photo Gallery Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15659 WebCalendar Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15662 Lore Article.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15665 WebCalendar Layers_Toggle.PHP HTTP Response Splitting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15673 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Dec 24 13:44:45 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:44:45 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP in SecurityFocus #328 Message-ID: <20051224184237.C1ED682B262@mailspool2.panix.com> These summaries are available online RSS: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.xml HTML: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.html Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #328 APPLICATIONS USING PHP ---------------------- PHPMyAdmin Import_Blacklist Variable Overwrite Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15761 Upgrade to version 2.7-pl1 PHPMyAdmin Multiple Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15735 Upgrade to version 2.7 Horde IMP Email Attachments HTML Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15730 PHP-Fusion Messages.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15698 PHPYellowTM Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15700 Widget Press Widget Property Property.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15701 MediaWiki User Language Remote Code Execution Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15703 SAMEDIA Landshop Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15709 Web4Future KeyWord Frequency Counter Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15702 Web4Future eCommerce Enterprise Edition Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15707 Web4Future eDating Professional Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15715 Web4Future Portal Solutions Comentarii.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15716 Web4Future Affiliate Manager PRO Functions.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15717 Web4Future Portal Solutions Arhiva.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15718 Quicksilver Forums SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15710 Hobosworld HobSR Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15713 Relative Real Estate Systems SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15714 Blog System Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15719 PluggedOut Nexus Search Script Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15724 PluggedOut Blog Index.PHP Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15746 PHPForumPro Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15736 DoceboLMS Connector.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15742 DoceboLMS Arbitrary File Upload Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15744 Cars Portal Index.PHP Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15747 e107 Website System Voting Manipulation Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15748 ThWboard Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15763 SimpleBBS Remote Arbitrary Command Execution Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15764 DRZES HMS Login.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15766 Website Baker SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15776 Contenido CMS Unspecified Remote Command Execution Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15790 MilliScripts Register.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15792 MyBB Multiple Unspecified Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15793 Flatnuke Index.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15796 RELATED STUFF ------------- Mozilla Firefox Large History File Buffer Overflow Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15773 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Dec 24 13:44:48 2005 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:44:48 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP in SecurityFocus #329 Message-ID: <20051224184241.AEAC8670C20@mailspool3.panix.com> These summaries are available online RSS: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.xml HTML: http://phpsec.org/projects/vulnerabilities/securityfocus.html Alerts from SecurityFocus Newsletter #329 The large number of Perl items in this week's newsletter is surprising. APPLICATIONS USING PHP ---------------------- Flatnuke Index.PHP Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15796 Netref Index.php SQL Injection Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15801 Netref Index.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15862 Horde Turba Multiple HTML Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15802 Horde Mnemo Remote HTML Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15803 Horde Nag Remote HTML Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15804 Horde Application Framework Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15806 Horde Kronolith Multiple HTML Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15808 Horde Application Framework CSV File Upload Code Execution Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15810 UseBB PHP_SELF Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15817 Scout Portal Toolkit Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15818 Arab Portal Link.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15820 PHPCoin Coin_CFG.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15830 PHPCoin Config.PHP File Include Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15831 EncapsGallery Gallery.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15836 PHPWebGallery Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15837 Plogger Index.PHP Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15839 PHP JackKnife Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15841 Mantis View_filters_page.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15842 Link Up Gold Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15843 Snipe Gallery Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15844 mcGallery PRO Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15845 PHP Web Scripts Ad Manager Pro Advertiser_statistic.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15847 Jamit Job Board Index.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15848 DreamLevels Dream Poll View_Results.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15849 MySQL Auction Search Module Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15852 PHP Support Tickets Multiple SQL Injection Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15853 CKGold Search.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15854 PHPNuke Content Filtering Byapss Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15855 WHMCompleteSolution Knowledgebase.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15856 WikkaWiki TextSearch.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15860 QuickPayPro Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15863 MarmaraWeb E-Commerce Remote File Include Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15877 MarmaraWeb E-Commerce Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15875 TML CMS Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15876 AlmondSoft Almond Classifieds SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15899 RELATED STUFF ------------- cURL / libcURL URL Parser Buffer Overflow Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15756 Upgrade to 7.15.1. Apache Mod_IMAP Referer Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/15834 From countdraculla at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 00:54:42 2005 From: countdraculla at gmail.com (Hasin Hayder) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:54:42 +0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] check this cool AJAX based framework for PHP5 Message-ID: Hi all, zephyr is an ajax based framework for php5 developers. you can easily develop business applications using this robust framework. this is extremely easy to learn and implement. you can deliver a full fledged ajax application with strong business layer in backend within some minutes. installation and deployment of packages that you develop for zephyr is hassle free. moreover you will get all the features of most popular templating engine "smarty" and powerfull data access layer "adoDB". Just install this package and develop ajax applications. Visit : http://zephyr-php.sourceforge.net -- -------------------------------------------------------- Hasin Hayder http://hasin.phpxperts.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmintz at davidmintz.org Tue Dec 27 17:14:11 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:14:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] upgrade a mySQL replication slave server without breaking replication? Message-ID: I can't seem to find this from RTFM. How indeed do you go about upgrading a slave server from 4.1.x to 5.0.17 and not break replication in the process? Thanks and happy new year to all, --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From fields at hedge.net Tue Dec 27 17:21:59 2005 From: fields at hedge.net (Adam Fields) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:21:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] upgrade a mySQL replication slave server without breaking replication? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051227222159.GE14752@lola.aquick.org> On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 05:14:11PM -0500, David Mintz wrote: > I can't seem to find this from RTFM. How indeed do you go about upgrading > a slave server from 4.1.x to 5.0.17 and not break replication in the > process? This should be no problem at all - you just shut down the slave, upgrade it, and replication should pick up again when you restart. Then you can upgrade the master. This is the same as it was with 3.x to 4.x. http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/replication-upgrade-5-0.html Generally, you want your slaves to be the same version as the master, but if that's not possible (as in when you upgrade), then the slaves must be higher version than the master. -- - Adam ** Expert Technical Project and Business Management **** System Performance Analysis and Architecture ****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ] [ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog [ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos [ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ].............Wiki [ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links From salmaz2000 at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 12:32:28 2005 From: salmaz2000 at gmail.com (Saima Mazhar) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:32:28 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP AND EMAIL Message-ID: <7740c3f70512280932x3c6984a9qea82f839adaee5b7@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I am creating an order form in HTML on a Linux machine. I would like to fetch all or some of the fields from that form and put them in an email and send the email to anyone. How can I do that? Is there an email feature in PHP? If there is such a feature, then is it supported by all the versions of PHP and where can I find some examples of this? Thanks. Sincerely Yours, Salman. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LeeEyerman at aol.com Wed Dec 28 12:36:30 2005 From: LeeEyerman at aol.com (LeeEyerman at aol.com) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:36:30 EST Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP AND EMAIL Message-ID: <24b.46deb7a.30e4271e@aol.com> Salman, PHP provides a great function mail(). It is rather easy to use. _http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mail.php_ (http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mail.php) _http://www.comptechdoc.org/independent/web/php/intro/phpmail.html_ (http://www.comptechdoc.org/independent/web/php/intro/phpmail.html) (good tutorial) _http://www.zend.com/manual/function.mail.php_ (http://www.zend.com/manual/function.mail.php) _http://us2.php.net/manual/en/ref.mail.php_ (http://us2.php.net/manual/en/ref.mail.php) Lee In a message dated 12/28/2005 12:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, salmaz2000 at gmail.com writes: Hello, I am creating an order form in HTML on a Linux machine. I would like to fetch all or some of the fields from that form and put them in an email and send the email to anyone. How can I do that? Is there an email feature in PHP? If there is such a feature, then is it supported by all the versions of PHP and where can I find some examples of this? Thanks. Sincerely Yours, Salman. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From salmaz2000 at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 12:57:17 2005 From: salmaz2000 at gmail.com (Saima Mazhar) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:57:17 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP AND EMAIL In-Reply-To: <24b.46deb7a.30e4271e@aol.com> References: <24b.46deb7a.30e4271e@aol.com> Message-ID: <7740c3f70512280957k57b9da23p8874755f630f3ea9@mail.gmail.com> Thanks a lot Lee. I`ll definitely give this a try. Looks good. Thanks again. Salman. On 12/28/05, LeeEyerman at aol.com wrote: > > Salman, > > PHP provides a great function mail(). It is rather easy to use. > http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mail.php > http://www.comptechdoc.org/independent/web/php/intro/phpmail.html (good > tutorial) > http://www.zend.com/manual/function.mail.php > http://us2.php.net/manual/en/ref.mail.php > > Lee > > > > > In a message dated 12/28/2005 12:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, > salmaz2000 at gmail.com writes: > > Hello, > > I am creating an order form in HTML on a Linux machine. I would like to > fetch all or some of the fields from that form and put them in an email and > send the email to anyone. How can I do that? Is there an email feature in > PHP? If there is such a feature, then is it supported by all the versions of > PHP and where can I find some examples of this? > > Thanks. > Sincerely Yours, > Salman. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com Wed Dec 28 12:58:10 2005 From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:58:10 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP AND EMAIL In-Reply-To: <7740c3f70512280932x3c6984a9qea82f839adaee5b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <7740c3f70512280932x3c6984a9qea82f839adaee5b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051228125810.q17m3kezuyiockoc@www.rbnsn.com> Quoting Saima Mazhar : > Hello, > > I am creating an order form in HTML on a Linux machine. I would like to > fetch all or some of the fields from that form and put them in an email and > send the email to anyone. How can I do that? Is there an email feature in > PHP? If there is such a feature, then is it supported by all the versions of > PHP and where can I find some examples of this? There is the mail() function in PHP This is a simple script to mail the contents of your form back to yourself would be: I have no error checking in the script and I haven't checked it for syntax errors. Ken From salmaz2000 at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 13:00:52 2005 From: salmaz2000 at gmail.com (Saima Mazhar) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:00:52 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP AND EMAIL In-Reply-To: <20051228125810.q17m3kezuyiockoc@www.rbnsn.com> References: <7740c3f70512280932x3c6984a9qea82f839adaee5b7@mail.gmail.com> <20051228125810.q17m3kezuyiockoc@www.rbnsn.com> Message-ID: <7740c3f70512281000p6038a852ic58706d1aa8a1221@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Ken. I`ll definitely try this out. Looks very helpful. Thanks again. Salman. On 12/28/05, Ken Robinson wrote: > > Quoting Saima Mazhar : > > > Hello, > > > > I am creating an order form in HTML on a Linux machine. I would like to > > fetch all or some of the fields from that form and put them in an email > and > > send the email to anyone. How can I do that? Is there an email feature > in > > PHP? If there is such a feature, then is it supported by all the > versions of > > PHP and where can I find some examples of this? > > There is the mail() function in PHP > > > This is a simple script to mail the contents of your form back to > yourself would > be: > > $to = 'youremail at your.domain.com'; > $subject = 'Order form contents'; > $headers = 'From: orderform at your.domain.com'; > $body = print_r($_POST,true); // assumes that you are using the POST > method > mail($to, $subject, $body, $headers); > ?> > > I have no error checking in the script and I haven't checked it for syntax > errors. > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonbaer at jonbaer.com Wed Dec 28 13:12:53 2005 From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:12:53 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP AND EMAIL In-Reply-To: <7740c3f70512280932x3c6984a9qea82f839adaee5b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <7740c3f70512280932x3c6984a9qea82f839adaee5b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <37CC9BE8-44EB-4E52-84B7-2A283C0B7499@jonbaer.com> There is probably no easier, more defined way than learning PEAR's Mail http://pear.php.net/packages.php?catpid=14&catname=Mail http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.mail.mail.php While it supports PHP native mail() call it's probably better to learn the package anyway. shell> sudo pear install --alldeps Mail - Jon On Dec 28, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Saima Mazhar wrote: > Hello, > > I am creating an order form in HTML on a Linux machine. I would > like to fetch all or some of the fields from that form and put them > in an email and send the email to anyone. How can I do that? Is > there an email feature in PHP? If there is such a feature, then is > it supported by all the versions of PHP and where can I find some > examples of this? > > Thanks. > Sincerely Yours, > Salman. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org From salmaz2000 at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 13:36:33 2005 From: salmaz2000 at gmail.com (Saima Mazhar) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:36:33 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP AND EMAIL In-Reply-To: <37CC9BE8-44EB-4E52-84B7-2A283C0B7499@jonbaer.com> References: <7740c3f70512280932x3c6984a9qea82f839adaee5b7@mail.gmail.com> <37CC9BE8-44EB-4E52-84B7-2A283C0B7499@jonbaer.com> Message-ID: <7740c3f70512281036v4e6e2ffci1e97100ef67e48f@mail.gmail.com> Thanks a lot Jon. I`ll definitely try this one as well. Thanks again. Salman. On 12/28/05, Jon Baer wrote: > > There is probably no easier, more defined way than learning PEAR's Mail > > http://pear.php.net/packages.php?catpid=14&catname=Mail > http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.mail.mail.php > > While it supports PHP native mail() call it's probably better to > learn the package anyway. > > shell> sudo pear install --alldeps Mail > > - Jon > > On Dec 28, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Saima Mazhar wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I am creating an order form in HTML on a Linux machine. I would > > like to fetch all or some of the fields from that form and put them > > in an email and send the email to anyone. How can I do that? Is > > there an email feature in PHP? If there is such a feature, then is > > it supported by all the versions of PHP and where can I find some > > examples of this? > > > > Thanks. > > Sincerely Yours, > > Salman. > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > > AMP Technology > > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Dec 28 14:35:38 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:35:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] upgrade a mySQL replication slave server without breaking replication? In-Reply-To: <20051227222159.GE14752@lola.aquick.org> References: <20051227222159.GE14752@lola.aquick.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, Adam Fields wrote: > On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 05:14:11PM -0500, David Mintz wrote: > > I can't seem to find this from RTFM. How indeed do you go about upgrading > > a slave server from 4.1.x to 5.0.17 and not break replication in the > > process? > > This should be no problem at all - you just shut down the slave, > upgrade it, and replication should pick up again when you > restart. Then you can upgrade the master. This is the same as it was > with 3.x to 4.x. > Then I wonder what I did wrong when I upgraded a slave yesterday. The M in RTFM recommends mysqldumping all your data pre-upgrade and re-storing it post-upgrade. I did that. When I ran 'show slave status' it was broken. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From ashaw at polymerdb.org Wed Dec 28 14:45:05 2005 From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:45:05 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Opinions Wanted: Data Management App Message-ID: <43B2EB41.2010000@polymerdb.org> Hi All, I have an Open Source PHP/MySQL project I've been doing solo for quite a while, and I need some opinions on the value of continuing it. Any comments you can make on the following situation are greatly appreciated. I explain the situation first, and then some details on the project. Some time ago (two or three years by now) I was looking for a package that would let me move my existing MS-Access database to an online system, preferably using PHP and MySQL. I didn't find anything existing, so I started making my own. (It was around that time that I subscribed to NYPHP-Talk.) For a long time I've thought of this as an Open Source project, even gave it a name and got a spot on Sourceforge a few months ago, started a blog and a wiki to organize and publicize my thoughts on it, and spent a good deal of energy trying to separate the generic reusable parts from the "my database app" parts. So now I actually have a project that is self-contained and could be used to create Web-based database apps similar to what you might create with MS-Access. I personally think it's pretty neat, and I keep using it because I like it and I couldn't find anything better. But the effort of using it myself is significantly less than what it takes to make sure it's acceptable as a public project. And recently I've started to think that maybe the PHP communitye doesn't need a package like this. So I have to assess whether to keep investing in the public angle or just go back to doing it for myself. I'd like you're opinion. Here's what the thing does: As I mentioned above, this was originally meant to be a PHP/MySQL replacement for MS-Access. It mostly keeps the same concepts of forms and reports (using Smarty templates), queries, and modules, so it gives a pretty nicely structured environment for creating an application. It's not meant for typical online publishing applications like blogging or similar jobs that could be handled well by most CMS packages, but primarily for data input and retrieval systems, like databases for membership, personnel, inventory, etc. One of the best features, I think, is the ability to control access to different sections of your app based on the user's membership in different permission groups. With this package, I can get a database app running pretty quickly, by creating a few tables and a few templates, then assigning the navigational links ("actions") to different permission groups, and setting up whatever users there are. Pros and Cons: There are a few things I really like about this package, and some things I think are going to limit it. To keep this email less long, I'll link to the list here: http://polymerdb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pros_and_cons My Questions: 1. Is there something already out there that's better? 2. Is this kind of project even interesting to the PHP community? 3. If it's worth continuing, I'll take any recommendations on best ways to move it forward. Other links: Blog: http://polymerdb.org About: http://polymerdb.org/?postid=1 Wiki: http://polymerdb.org/wiki Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/polymer Thanks for your time and input. - Allen -- Allen Shaw Polymer (http://polymerdb.org) From fields at hedge.net Wed Dec 28 15:22:06 2005 From: fields at hedge.net (Adam Fields) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:22:06 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] upgrade a mySQL replication slave server without breaking replication? In-Reply-To: References: <20051227222159.GE14752@lola.aquick.org> Message-ID: <20051228202206.GA30139@lola.aquick.org> On Wed, Dec 28, 2005 at 02:35:38PM -0500, David Mintz wrote: > Then I wonder what I did wrong when I upgraded a slave yesterday. The M in > RTFM recommends mysqldumping all your data pre-upgrade and re-storing it > post-upgrade. I did that. When I ran 'show slave status' it was broken. Define "broken". What does show slave status show? -- - Adam ** Expert Technical Project and Business Management **** System Performance Analysis and Architecture ****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ] [ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog [ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos [ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ].............Wiki [ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links From ken at secdat.com Wed Dec 28 15:42:56 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:42:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Opinions Wanted: Data Management App In-Reply-To: <43B2EB41.2010000@polymerdb.org> References: <43B2EB41.2010000@polymerdb.org> Message-ID: <37367.38.117.147.25.1135802576.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Allen, I'll give it a go. > I have an Open Source PHP/MySQL project I've been doing solo for quite a > while, and I need some opinions on the value of continuing it. We have to first ask the question, what is its value to you? Do you use it to make a living, or for a hobby project, or for just the fun? It sounds like you are asking other people whether to continue, but that would only be a valid course of action if it has no value to you. If it has value to you then of course you continue on those grounds. That leaves as a separate question whether it has value to anybody else. > > For a long time I've thought of this as an Open Source project, even > gave it a name and got a spot on Sourceforge a few months ago, started a > blog and a wiki to organize and publicize my thoughts on it, and spent a > good deal of energy trying to separate the generic reusable parts from > the "my database app" parts. So now I actually have a project that is > self-contained and could be used to create Web-based database apps > similar to what you might create with MS-Access. I think I can relate. I've got my own open source db system, which I now shamelessly plug here: http://dhost2.secdat.com but what you are not saying, though it seems to scream out from the post, is that there is not much interest in it. Am I correct? Is the question really, should I maintain this public project that nobody(for appropriate values of 'nobody') is using? > > I personally think it's pretty neat, and I keep using it because I like > it and I couldn't find anything better. But do you think its insanely great? Open Source is just like commercial stuff in that people go with the projects whose creators believe their projects are amazing and wonderful. > But the effort of using it > myself is significantly less than what it takes to make sure it's > acceptable as a public project. A businessman's answer is to devote resources to the public project in proportion to the expected payback. If you are doing it for fun and glory it is time vs. glory. If you are hoping to attract programmers to it and expand your company's credibility, gain colleagues you can hire or be hired by, then you have to weigh the value of these benefits against your time in promoting it. What kind of track record can you look back on to inform the answers to these questions? > And recently I've started to think that > maybe the PHP communitye doesn't need a package like this. So I have to > assess whether to keep investing in the public angle or just go back to > doing it for myself. I'd like you're opinion. When you say "...maybe the PHP community..." I'm again guessing that you are not seeing the interest you hope. Do you talk it up at user's meetings? Do you mention it to colleagues at every opportunity? Do you believe it can change a person's life for the better (I don't mean blinding light religious experience, I mean getting home an hour earlier to see kids, swim in pool, etc.) and do you tell people so? How do they respond? Key question: Is anybody using it besides you. If not, why not? What do people tell you? Since I have also written a database-centric PHP framework, I'd be happy to ruthlessly challenge all of your assumptions and you could do the same to mine. Would such an exchange benefit anybody? Would they learn from the approaches you've taken? Does it benefit anybody to know your approach even if they don't use your system? Hope this helps. Its no easy thing to write a framework, and no small matter to leave one behind. I've written 4 and left behind 3 (Fox Dos, Fox Windows, VFP Windows all abandoned for PHP Linux), and was lead architect on one written by somebody else, its easy to become *very* attached to them, and its always healthy to ask, "Is this what I should be doing?" -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Dec 28 16:02:32 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:02:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] upgrade a mySQL replication slave server without breaking replication? In-Reply-To: <20051228202206.GA30139@lola.aquick.org> References: <20051227222159.GE14752@lola.aquick.org> <20051228202206.GA30139@lola.aquick.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Adam Fields wrote: > On Wed, Dec 28, 2005 at 02:35:38PM -0500, David Mintz wrote: > > Then I wonder what I did wrong when I upgraded a slave yesterday. The M in > > RTFM recommends mysqldumping all your data pre-upgrade and re-storing it > > post-upgrade. I did that. When I ran 'show slave status' it was broken. > > Define "broken". > > What does show slave status show? > Oops, sorry, too late. I restored replication yesterday and don't remember. Other than "seconds behind master" was NULL and some other value up at the top of the output was other than "waiting for master to send event," and I did a couple informal tests -- change some data on master, see if update propagates to slave -- and they failed. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From ashaw at polymerdb.org Wed Dec 28 16:10:39 2005 From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:10:39 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Opinions Wanted: Data Management App In-Reply-To: <37367.38.117.147.25.1135802576.squirrel@38.117.147.25> References: <43B2EB41.2010000@polymerdb.org> <37367.38.117.147.25.1135802576.squirrel@38.117.147.25> Message-ID: <43B2FF4F.2040901@polymerdb.org> > but what you are not saying, though it seems to scream out from the post, > is that there is not much interest in it. Am I correct? Is the question > really, should I maintain this public project that nobody(for appropriate > values of 'nobody') is using? The lack of interest thus far is not so much of a concern or surprise for me. I should have mentioned that in fact I have done essentially no promotion of this project. It's therefore natural and expected that I don't have other people using it. I release the code under an OS license as a matter of principle, but I have not invested much time or effort in talking it up. More of an issue for me in this thread is whether such a project would actually be useful for other people. Are people -- the people on this list -- looking for an Open Source PHP package that provides a structured development environment for data management applications? Your comments, and your web site, are quite thought-provoking for me in this case. I hope to hear more from others, as well. Thanks, Allen Kenneth Downs wrote: > Allen, I'll give it a go. > ... -- Allen Shaw Polymer (http://polymerdb.org) From fields at hedge.net Wed Dec 28 16:18:05 2005 From: fields at hedge.net (Adam Fields) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:18:05 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] upgrade a mySQL replication slave server without breaking replication? In-Reply-To: References: <20051227222159.GE14752@lola.aquick.org> <20051228202206.GA30139@lola.aquick.org> Message-ID: <20051228211805.GB30139@lola.aquick.org> On Wed, Dec 28, 2005 at 04:02:32PM -0500, David Mintz wrote: > Oops, sorry, too late. I restored replication yesterday and don't > remember. Other than "seconds behind master" was NULL and some other > value up at the top of the output was other than "waiting for master to > send event," and I did a couple informal tests -- change some data on > master, see if update propagates to slave -- and they failed. Okay, well, troubleshooting replication is usually pretty easy. There's not much to it. The master generates binlog files when queries are run, and the slave pulls these over and runs them. If there's a problem, it's almost certainly one of the following: 1) The slave is trying to log in to the master with a login that either doesn't exist, has the wrong password (or hash scheme), or has insufficient permissions. 2) There's some network problem that keeps the slave from seeing the master, or the ip address/port of the master is wrong. 3) The binlog files aren't being read, written, or run properly. 4) The binglog files can't be run because the slave state is out of sync with the state of the master when then binlog files were generated or the slave is using the wrong binlog file/position. That's basically it, and it's usually relatively easy to narrow down where the problem is. -- - Adam ** Expert Technical Project and Business Management **** System Performance Analysis and Architecture ****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ] [ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog [ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos [ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ].............Wiki [ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Dec 28 16:41:34 2005 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:41:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] upgrade a mySQL replication slave server without breaking replication? In-Reply-To: <20051228211805.GB30139@lola.aquick.org> References: <20051227222159.GE14752@lola.aquick.org> <20051228202206.GA30139@lola.aquick.org> <20051228211805.GB30139@lola.aquick.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Adam Fields wrote: [snip] > If there's a problem, it's almost certainly one of the following: > > 1) The slave is trying to log in to the master with a login that > either doesn't exist, has the wrong password (or hash scheme), or > has insufficient permissions. > > 2) There's some network problem that keeps the slave from seeing the > master, or the ip address/port of the master is wrong. > > 3) The binlog files aren't being read, written, or run properly. > > 4) The binglog files can't be run because the slave state is out of > sync with the state of the master when then binlog files were > generated or the slave is using the wrong binlog file/position. > > That's basically it, and it's usually relatively easy to narrow down > where the problem is. Maybe I did something silly and broke it myself. It took some doing to get it working again for reasons that are also obscure. Anyway, thanks. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ From ken at secdat.com Wed Dec 28 18:36:55 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:36:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Opinions Wanted: Data Management App In-Reply-To: <43B2FF4F.2040901@polymerdb.org> References: <43B2EB41.2010000@polymerdb.org> <37367.38.117.147.25.1135802576.squirrel@38.117.147.25> <43B2FF4F.2040901@polymerdb.org> Message-ID: <37378.38.117.147.25.1135813015.squirrel@38.117.147.25> > > The lack of interest thus far is not so much of a concern or surprise > for me. I should have mentioned that in fact I have done essentially no > promotion of this project. It's therefore natural and expected that I > don't have other people using it. I release the code under an OS > license as a matter of principle, but I have not invested much time or > effort in talking it up. > > More of an issue for me in this thread is whether such a project would > actually be useful for other people. Are people -- the people on this > list -- looking for an Open Source PHP package that provides a > structured development environment for data management applications? Well before I duck out and listen to what others have to contribute, I'll reiteratie one point, which is that I suspect you will find out more of its usefulness if you go for more direct promotion. When you say to somebody, "I think I have something that may be of use to you" and show it to them, you find out quick whether or not you are right. The more of it you do, the more you find out. -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From codebowl at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 12:51:02 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:51:02 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records Message-ID: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> Hey everyone. I have a client who has a comma delimited file each line being a new record. currently i am trying to import this data into their new system. The file is 40mb in size and contains 650,000 records. I am using file() and i am sure this is not the best method as the import process is going dead slow. What i am doing is this Any suggestions on how to speed things up? -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at genoverly.net Sat Dec 31 12:54:12 2005 From: lists at genoverly.net (michael) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:54:12 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051231125412.6ccc2a96@wit.genoverly.home> On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:51:02 -0500 Joseph Crawford wrote: > Hey everyone. > > I have a client who has a comma delimited file each line being a new > record. currently i am trying to import this data into their new > system. The file is 40mb in size and contains 650,000 records. > Why use php? Just use mysql to import the file. -- Michael From codebowl at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 12:57:59 2005 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:57:59 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records In-Reply-To: <20051231125412.6ccc2a96@wit.genoverly.home> References: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> <20051231125412.6ccc2a96@wit.genoverly.home> Message-ID: <8d9a42800512310957x7d78b8f5oe2a346b356f5ee4d@mail.gmail.com> can mysql import a csv file and will it allow me to import to 2 different tables? one way or another i would have to get it into a format importable by mysql :) -- Joseph Crawford Jr. Zend Certified Engineer Codebowl Solutions, Inc. 1-802-671-2021 codebowl at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolan at omnistep.com Sat Dec 31 13:07:41 2005 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:07:41 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512310957x7d78b8f5oe2a346b356f5ee4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> <20051231125412.6ccc2a96@wit.genoverly.home> <8d9a42800512310957x7d78b8f5oe2a346b356f5ee4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43B6C8ED.6020108@omnistep.com> I would import the file into a temporary table, then run a query to separate and insert data into the appropriate tables/fields afterwards. MySQL is pretty fast at doing that stuff. ~Rolan Joseph Crawford wrote: > can mysql import a csv file and will it allow me to import to 2 > different tables? > one way or another i would have to get it into a format importable by > mysql :) > From ken at secdat.com Sat Dec 31 13:05:44 2005 From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:05:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32873.38.117.147.25.1136052344.squirrel@38.117.147.25> three things. First, As a general rule, never post code with the password, even if it is a throwaway. Second, if the suggestions to directly import w/mysql work out, that is probably the best. Third, if you cannot import w/mySQL tools, a better processing routine would look like this: $F=fopen("filename","r"); $kount=0; while (!feof($F)) { $kount++; if ($kount % 100 == 0) { echo "On line $kount \n"; } $line=fgets(F); // beware! contains trailing newline char ... all processing here ... } fclose($F); > Hey everyone. > > I have a client who has a comma delimited file each line being a new > record. > currently i am trying to import this data into their new system. The file > is 40mb in size and contains 650,000 records. > > I am using file() and i am sure this is not the best method as the import > process is going dead slow. What i am doing is this > > > ini_set('max_execution_time', 99200); > $link = mysql_connect('localhost', 'root', '8rittany'); > $db = mysql_select_db('12all_db'); > $lines = file('import.txt'); > $count = 0; > $skipped = 0; > foreach ($lines as $l) { > $line = explode(',', $l); > if($line[0] == 'Email') continue; > $sql = "SELECT id FROM 12all_listmembers WHERE > email='".trim($line[0])."'"; > $res = mysql_query($sql); > if(mysql_num_rows($res) == 0) { > $count++; > $dt = explode(' ', $line[4]); > $sql = "INSERT INTO 12all_listmembers (sdate, email, name, nl, > stime) VALUES('".trim(addslashes($dt[0]))."', > '".trim(addslashes($line[0]))."', '".trim(addslashes($line[1]))." > ".trim(addslashes($line[2]))."', 2, '".trim(addslashes($dt[1]))."')"; > $res = mysql_query($sql) or die(mysql_error()); > $id = mysql_insert_id($link); > $query[] = "INSERT INTO 12all_fieldsd (fid, eid, val, nl) > VALUES(1, > ".$id.", '".trim(addslashes($line[3]))."', 2)"; > $query[] = "INSERT INTO 12all_fieldsd (fid, eid, val, nl) > VALUES(2, > ".$id.", '".trim(addslashes($line[4]))."', 2)"; > $query[] = "INSERT INTO 12all_fieldsd (fid, eid, val, nl) > VALUES(3, > ".$id.", '".trim(addslashes($line[1]))."', 2)"; > $query[] = "INSERT INTO 12all_fieldsd (fid, eid, val, nl) > VALUES(4, > ".$id.", '".trim(addslashes($line[2]))."', 2)"; > foreach($query as $q) { > $res = mysql_query($q) or die(mysql_error()); > } > } else $skipped++; > } > echo 'imported '.$count.' records and skipped '.$skipped.' duplicates.'; > ?> > > Any suggestions on how to speed things up? > > -- > Joseph Crawford Jr. > Zend Certified Engineer > Codebowl Solutions, Inc. > 1-802-671-2021 > codebowl at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org -- Kenneth Downs Secure Data Software 631-379-0010 ken at secdat.com PO Box 708 East Setauket, NY 11733 From fields at hedge.net Sat Dec 31 13:14:52 2005 From: fields at hedge.net (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:14:52 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512310957x7d78b8f5oe2a346b356f5ee4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> <20051231125412.6ccc2a96@wit.genoverly.home> <8d9a42800512310957x7d78b8f5oe2a346b356f5ee4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051231181452.GE9638@lola.aquick.org> On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 12:57:59PM -0500, Joseph Crawford wrote: > can mysql import a csv file and will it allow me to import to 2 different > tables? > one way or another i would have to get it into a format importable by mysql > :) Actually, yes. http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/load-data.html -- - Adam ** Expert Technical Project and Business Management **** System Performance Analysis and Architecture ****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ] [ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog [ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos [ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ].............Wiki [ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links From shiflett at php.net Sat Dec 31 15:02:30 2005 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:02:30 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records In-Reply-To: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43B6E3D6.9020009@php.net> Joseph Crawford wrote: > $link = mysql_connect('localhost', 'root', '********'); You should change this password, even if you only allow local connections. You might also want to check to see if you use a similar password or naming convention in other places. As for your question, does fgetcsv() perform better? It would require you to process your file a line at a time rather than load it all into memory, but the actual parsing should be much faster. Another idea is to write out a file with your SQL statements. Executing each query, one at a time, sounds really slow. Regardless of how complicated your queries are, you can still process them in a single batch. This would probably be as simple as: $sql .= You can write $sql to a file and let MySQL slurp it up in one go. Hope that helps. Chris -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ From max.goldberg at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 15:24:40 2005 From: max.goldberg at gmail.com (max goldberg) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:24:40 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] importing 650,000 records In-Reply-To: <43B6E3D6.9020009@php.net> References: <8d9a42800512310951t2289fec9q29b5a9b295b9b659@mail.gmail.com> <43B6E3D6.9020009@php.net> Message-ID: <87e6ded30512311224y4aede108nb544fca75f02c9b5@mail.gmail.com> It depends on where the slowdown is. I'd agree with Chris, it would probably be best to put an index on the email field (if there isnt one already), and echo out the INSERTs with a newline. At that point you can just do php script.php > import.sql. Just keep in mind indexes play a major role when importing large amounts of data, especially when SELECTs are needed for each row. If the table isn't live or in production, it may go a lot faster if you drop all the indexes on the table other than the primary key once you are ready to run your INSERTs and re-add them when you are done. On 12/31/05, Chris Shiflett wrote: > > Joseph Crawford wrote: > > $link = mysql_connect('localhost', 'root', '********'); > > You should change this password, even if you only allow local > connections. You might also want to check to see if you use a similar > password or naming convention in other places. > > As for your question, does fgetcsv() perform better? It would require > you to process your file a line at a time rather than load it all into > memory, but the actual parsing should be much faster. > > Another idea is to write out a file with your SQL statements. Executing > each query, one at a time, sounds really slow. Regardless of how > complicated your queries are, you can still process them in a single > batch. This would probably be as simple as: > > $sql .= > > You can write $sql to a file and let MySQL slurp it up in one go. > > Hope that helps. > > Chris > > -- > Chris Shiflett > Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy > http://brainbulb.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suzerain at suzerain.com Sat Dec 31 19:53:38 2005 From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Antony Vose) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:53:38 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] number of files in a directory? In-Reply-To: <20051224184241.AEAC8670C20@mailspool3.panix.com> References: <20051224184241.AEAC8670C20@mailspool3.panix.com> Message-ID: Hey all: First of all: Happy New Year! Secondly: I am rebuilding a site that was coded somewhat sloppily, and they have product images all stored in one directory (a script that I am not writing auto-uploads them to the web server from elsewhere). Presently, this directory contains about 33,000 files. It will be more like 75,000 when the site launches, if things remain the same. The question is: should I be worried about this, or was this only a problem several years ago? (I remember people at one time attempting to not put too many files in one place.) If I should be worried, what could happen? Will we ever reach a hard limit of files per directory? Is it better if each product instead has its own directory inside there (i.e., 75,000 directories), each with as many files as we need inside, or is that just the same problem? Cheers, -- Marc Antony Vose http://www.suzerain.com/ Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein From leam at reuel.net Sat Dec 31 20:04:17 2005 From: leam at reuel.net (leam at reuel.net) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:04:17 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] number of files in a directory? In-Reply-To: References: <20051224184241.AEAC8670C20@mailspool3.panix.com> Message-ID: <20060101010417.GB11887@leitz.reuel.net> Happy New Year to you as well! What OS? Most unix filesystems have a set number of inodes and you need at least one inode per file. Files larger than the block size (4k-8k usually) take more than one inode. If you have shell access to the box try: df -i It should tell you the number of inodes. The other issue you may have, even if this works, is if the box is a shared host for other clients. You'll take up a significant chunk of inodes. That's what springs off the top of my head. ciao! leam On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 07:53:38PM -0500, Marc Antony Vose wrote: > Hey all: > > First of all: Happy New Year! > > Secondly: I am rebuilding a site that was coded somewhat sloppily, > and they have product images all stored in one directory (a script > that I am not writing auto-uploads them to the web server from > elsewhere). Presently, this directory contains about 33,000 files. > It will be more like 75,000 when the site launches, if things remain > the same. > > The question is: should I be worried about this, or was this only a > problem several years ago? (I remember people at one time attempting > to not put too many files in one place.) > > If I should be worried, what could happen? Will we ever reach a hard > limit of files per directory? > > Is it better if each product instead has its own directory inside > there (i.e., 75,000 directories), each with as many files as we need > inside, or is that just the same problem? > > Cheers, > > -- > Marc Antony Vose > http://www.suzerain.com/ > > Imagination is more important than knowledge. > -- Albert Einstein > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > > From suzerain at suzerain.com Sat Dec 31 20:54:12 2005 From: suzerain at suzerain.com (Marc Antony Vose) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:54:12 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] number of files in a directory? In-Reply-To: <20060101010417.GB11887@leitz.reuel.net> References: <20051224184241.AEAC8670C20@mailspool3.panix.com> <20060101010417.GB11887@leitz.reuel.net> Message-ID: Hi there: Thanks for the response. The OS will be Red Hat Enterprise 3 or 4; That will be determined when we get the server in February. But, this will be a dedicated hosting box at servermatrix...whatever's in the client's price range at the time we buy (probably their low-end Pentium 4 server). Anyway, it'll be our machine. So, inodes are the only particular worry? The directory structure is irrelevant? I can see how things are working on my OS X development machine in the meantime, which has a hell of a lot more going on than will be going on on this server. Cheers, Marc >Happy New Year to you as well! > >What OS? >Most unix filesystems have a set number of inodes and you need at >least one inode per file. Files larger than the block size (4k-8k >usually) take more than one inode. If you have shell access to the >box try: > > df -i > >It should tell you the number of inodes. The other issue you may >have, even if this works, is if the box is a shared host for other >clients. You'll take up a significant chunk of inodes. > >That's what springs off the top of my head. > >ciao! > >leam > > >On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 07:53:38PM -0500, Marc Antony Vose wrote: >> Hey all: >> >> First of all: Happy New Year! >> >> Secondly: I am rebuilding a site that was coded somewhat sloppily, >> and they have product images all stored in one directory (a script >> that I am not writing auto-uploads them to the web server from >> elsewhere). Presently, this directory contains about 33,000 files. >> It will be more like 75,000 when the site launches, if things remain >> the same. >> >> The question is: should I be worried about this, or was this only a >> problem several years ago? (I remember people at one time attempting >> to not put too many files in one place.) >> >> If I should be worried, what could happen? Will we ever reach a hard >> limit of files per directory? >> >> Is it better if each product instead has its own directory inside >> there (i.e., 75,000 directories), each with as many files as we need >> inside, or is that just the same problem? >> >> Cheers, >> >> -- >> Marc Antony Vose >> http://www.suzerain.com/ >> >> Imagination is more important than knowledge. >> -- Albert Einstein >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk Mailing List >> AMP Technology >> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.nyphp.org >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk Mailing List >AMP Technology >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.nyphp.org From leam at reuel.net Sat Dec 31 23:12:01 2005 From: leam at reuel.net (leam at reuel.net) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:12:01 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] number of files in a directory? In-Reply-To: References: <20051224184241.AEAC8670C20@mailspool3.panix.com> <20060101010417.GB11887@leitz.reuel.net> Message-ID: <20060101041201.GC11887@leitz.reuel.net> I don't know about performance, but it should at least work. Would hate to build an array off it though. I've set up a test directory on a SuSE system. I also have a Red Hat 3 and Fedora Core 3 box at hand. If you have any tests you'd like to e-mail me feel free to send them over. I'll be diving tomorrow but might have time to run them Monday. The ~/tmp/test directory is in export. It went from about 8% of inodes used to 22%. If you have a say in the building of the system and the files are small you can probably increase the inode count a bit. leam at leam:~/tmp/test> ls | wc -l 75001 leam at leam:~/tmp/test> df -i Filesystem Inodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on /dev/hda5 787968 134582 653386 18% / tmpfs 129537 5 129532 1% /dev/shm /dev/hda1 51400 36 51364 1% /boot /dev/hda3 393984 85709 308275 22% /export leam at leam:~/tmp/test> df -k Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda5 6192512 2896792 2981132 50% / tmpfs 518148 8 518140 1% /dev/shm /dev/hda1 198313 5535 182527 3% /boot /dev/hda3 3096240 251408 2687540 9% /export ciao! leam > Hi there: > > Thanks for the response. > > The OS will be Red Hat Enterprise 3 or 4; That will be determined > when we get the server in February. > > But, this will be a dedicated hosting box at > servermatrix...whatever's in the client's price range at the time we > buy (probably their low-end Pentium 4 server). Anyway, it'll be our > machine. > > So, inodes are the only particular worry? The directory structure is > irrelevant? > > I can see how things are working on my OS X development machine in > the meantime, which has a hell of a lot more going on than will be > going on on this server. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > > > >Happy New Year to you as well! > > > >What OS? > > > >Most unix filesystems have a set number of inodes and you need at > >least one inode per file. Files larger than the block size (4k-8k > >usually) take more than one inode. If you have shell access to the > >box try: > > > > df -i > > > >It should tell you the number of inodes. The other issue you may > >have, even if this works, is if the box is a shared host for other > >clients. You'll take up a significant chunk of inodes. > > > >That's what springs off the top of my head. > > > >ciao! > > > >leam > > > > > >On Sat, Dec 31, 2005 at 07:53:38PM -0500, Marc Antony Vose wrote: > >> Hey all: > >> > >> First of all: Happy New Year! > >> > >> Secondly: I am rebuilding a site that was coded somewhat sloppily, > >> and they have product images all stored in one directory (a script > >> that I am not writing auto-uploads them to the web server from > >> elsewhere). Presently, this directory contains about 33,000 files. > >> It will be more like 75,000 when the site launches, if things remain > >> the same. > >> > >> The question is: should I be worried about this, or was this only a > >> problem several years ago? (I remember people at one time attempting > >> to not put too many files in one place.) > >> > >> If I should be worried, what could happen? Will we ever reach a hard > >> limit of files per directory? > >> > >> Is it better if each product instead has its own directory inside > >> there (i.e., 75,000 directories), each with as many files as we need > >> inside, or is that just the same problem? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> -- > >> Marc Antony Vose > >> http://www.suzerain.com/ > >> > >> Imagination is more important than knowledge. > >> -- Albert Einstein > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New York PHP Talk Mailing List > >> AMP Technology > >> Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >> http://www.nyphp.org > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >New York PHP Talk Mailing List > >AMP Technology > >Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >http://www.nyphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk Mailing List > AMP Technology > Supporting Apache, MySQL and PHP > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org > >