NYCPHP Meetup

[CED]

David,

I agree with everything you've written, and we certainly did discuss some of
the questions I had on there, a complete background was:

That this candidate had started his career in a VERY different industry
He then moved into some project management positions within IS, which were
difficult to tell form his resume what the technical level was.
He had noted several 'projects' that he claimed were enterprise level, but
didn't seem to be what I consider enterprise level, and certainly not for
this position.

So here I was thinking, "Wow, we just touched on all of this on the NY
forum, I can't tell if this would be offensive or if it would be expected."
So I told him I'd be offering him an exam that I felt would be a challenege
to most candidates, but due to the variety of his resume I felt it necessary
to help me gauge really where he was at. After all I'm responsible for
millions not hundreds, and this particular position is VERY high-level. He
seemed total fin with the idea... until he saw the questions... So that was
when I thought I'd come to the forum...

I do plan on reaching out to him again, just to hopefully help to clarify
with him where I'm coming from and the highly technical need of the
position; as well as to continue some of the informal conversations (Which
is where I'm hoping to learn the most). I guess the bottom line is I have
been smoothed talked a lot in my earlier years, and have grown well beyond
that. I know what I want in a mid-level and entry-level guy; but I'm also
far more clear on what I want in a super-guru. I thought that my approach
covered the gammit, but apparently some here think I'm just a big
peepee-head.

-Edward

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Krings" <ramons at gmx.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Oh... Interviewing


> CED wrote:
> > I recently sat down with a candidate for a Software Management/Architect
> > position here is what I presented:
> >
> °snip°
> > Now I thought that these questions were certainly challenging yet basic
> > enough for an expert software architect, however, and much to my
surprise
> > the candidate wasn't really even interested in looking at it, in fact he
> > refused to answer any of it. Other than being surprised, and needless to
say
> > concerned, It made me re-visit our many emails a few weeks ago about
> > interviewing... and here was my conclusion:
> >
> > 1) If you're given an exam, just try your best, but don't refuse, after
all,
> > are you or are you not confident in your abilities
> > 2) When administering an exam, be sure to have informed the candidate
before
> > hand, it gives them the opportunity to prepare
> > 3) In the end, trust your gut. We have all been at various places of
talent
> > throughout our respective careers, you know when someone isn't
completely
> > up-to-speed, and when someone is simply bashful about their skills.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> Besides the unintersting fact that I couldn't answer no more than one or
> two questions, I wonder what else you asked the candidate. I also wonder
> if that test is necessary given that you probably want candidates with
> experience. I think to put someone through such a test who already
> worked for ten years in sw development is plain silly. I'd take it as an
> insult and even if I could write a dissertation about each topic, I
> wouldn't do it. Read my resume and check my previous work.
> Also silly for a recent CS graduate who probably can answer many of
> these questions without ever having completed a project that also
> worked. That test is more applicable when you get a candidate who
> previously did not work in the sw industry, which doesn't mean that
> he/she cannot code. It tests theoretical knowledge, not skill.
> In regards to the test, do all of those areas matter substantially to
> what the candidate is later expected to work on? Does it require
> extensive networking knowledge? Regular expressions? SQL? Keep in mind
> that you are hiring a human being, not god.
>
> And as discussed in great detail earlier on this list, just please cross
> off the question "ad.. Switch the assignments of variable A and variable
> B." I think we established the fact that this is a useless exercise.
>
> Oh, and don't use letters if you plan to ask more than 26 items. Use
> numbers - this is the tech writer talking.
>
> And the one that refused to take the test? I'd call him/her for a second
> interview. You do want gutsy people on your team, not just yea-sayers
> and bobbleheads. Of course, make sure that the skills are there by just
> talking to people.
>
> C'mon, they all went to school for 20 years and have some experience.
> You want to treat them like a freshman and give them a bubble sheet to
> fill in? Talk to them, have them explain what they did? Can they do
> that? Do they show passion for what they are doing? Did they do 50 times
> the same or 10 times a bunch of different stuff? Are they eager to
> learn? Your test will not answer any of these fundamentally important
> questions.
>
> Uh, and one other thing, in "an.. Replace the 2nd “p” with “g” and
> change “Planned” to “Plotted” in “Peter Piper Planned Poorly”" there is
> no second lower case "p". Maybe that is an intentional gotcha.
>
> Just....talk to the candidates, don't do a test. NCLB doesn't apply to
> the workplace.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>