[nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
Donna Marie Vincent
donnamarievincent at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 2 08:50:25 EDT 2011
The hourly rate is meaningless because it depends on how much work a particular
person can get done in an hour.
A proficient and efficient programmer who gets twice as much work done in an
hour than someone charging $45/hr, can command $90/hr.
>
> I think it largely depends where you are. For example, if you're in
> NYC, you can easily command a *much* higher rate than I can here in
> Oklahoma. In NYC, the going rate is $90+ an hour I hear while I work
> comfortably here for $25.50 to $30 an hour. So depending on where you
> are, you might not be undercharging at all.
>
> Check your competition and see what they charge. Set your prices
> according to your local market.
>
> Anthony
>
> On 4/1/11, Bruce Martin<bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website redesign is
>> going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging too
>> much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>>
>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recoverygov-web-site.html
>>l
>>
>> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really eating
>> away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this bidding, if in
>> deed it did go up for bid.
>>
>> Bruce Martin
>> c. 917-727-8230
>> p. 570-421-0670
>> bmartin at mac.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 02:56:41 -0500
From: Anthony Papillion <papillion at gmail.com>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
Message-ID: <4D96D6B9.2050605 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Well, my point wasn't so much an exact price but rather that the rate
you charge largely has to do with where you're providing services. Since
I'm not sure where Bruce is (I am assuming NYC but I don't know) I
simply used a number I'd seen elsewhere. The number itself is
meaningless, really, but the idea was what I was trying to convey.
You're right though that 'website design' probably does differ a lot in
rate from programming but numbers weren't my point. :-)
Anthony
On 04/02/2011 02:39 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
> That is incorrect. Perhaps a few programmers at Wall Street firms are
> getting $90 an hour, but the going rate for normal folks here in NYC is
> about $50/hr.
>
> Although for sure plenty of folks come onto the NYC list and try to
> undercut our rates...
>
> Also "website redesign" is not usually programming but involves other
> skills (like CSS, graphics design, etc). I would not be surprised to
> see rates differ between that and actual programming tasks.
>
> Kristina
>
> On 4/2/2011 12:04 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> I think it largely depends where you are. For example, if you're in
>> NYC, you can easily command a *much* higher rate than I can here in
>> Oklahoma. In NYC, the going rate is $90+ an hour I hear while I work
>> comfortably here for $25.50 to $30 an hour. So depending on where you
>> are, you might not be undercharging at all.
>>
>> Check your competition and see what they charge. Set your prices
>> according to your local market.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> On 4/1/11, Bruce Martin<bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website
>>> redesign is
>>> going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging too
>>> much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>>>
>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recoverygov-web-site.html
>>>l
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really
>>> eating
>>> away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this bidding,
>>> if in
>>> deed it did go up for bid.
>>>
>>> Bruce Martin
>>> c. 917-727-8230
>>> p. 570-421-0670
>>> bmartin at mac.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 04:01:05 -0400
From: Kristina Anderson <ka at kacomputerconsulting.com>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
Message-ID: <4D96D7C1.5090605 at kacomputerconsulting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Bruce,
Also, please bear in mind that 95% of the budget on these "big
redesigns" goes to non-technical persons (management, artists, and
various hangers-on). For systems consulting, say, you know, where it's
just for a few hours or a day or two, and someone restores data and/or
deals with a hardware emergency, then yes, $90/hr or even $100/hr is
common. Major league Sys Admins and DBAs can also score that much.
But at $50/hr, that comes to $2,000+ a week or about $9000+ a month
(depending on how many hours you can get per week). For a humble
programmer of PHP that is about as good as it gets, unfortunately. I've
been consulting in the NYC market for over 10 years, BTW, and also was
on the sales end placing consultants for several years during the middle
of the last decade, so I know what rates really are...
Stand your ground on a reasonable rate as long as you can; the forces at
work to undercut us and reduce our income are relentless and brutal.
Yes, you as a programmer do deserve to make a decent living, no matter
what you are told by people looking to save a buck or two. Good luck!!
Kristina
On 4/1/2011 11:51 PM, Bruce Martin wrote:
>
> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website redesign
> is going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging
> too much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>
>http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recoverygov-web-site.html
>l
>
> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really
> eating away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this
> bidding, if in deed it did go up for bid.
>
> Bruce Martin
> c. 917-727-8230
> p. 570-421-0670
> bmartin at mac.com <mailto:bmartin at mac.com>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 04:17:39 -0400
From: Kristina Anderson <ka at kacomputerconsulting.com>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
Message-ID: <4D96DBA3.5010007 at kacomputerconsulting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Most programmers on this esteemed list, including those who are located
in remote areas of the U.S., agree that working for substantially less
than $50 sets a bad example and undercuts a living wage for the whole
lot of us. I know many programmers outside of NYC who also earn the
standard $50 an hour and I think that, for anyone of any reasonable
expertise and experience, between $45-50 is a very reasonable benchmark
and for costing out "lump sum" projects, the $2,000 a week figure is useful.
Bear in mind that for every hour we bill out, we also incur the cost of
expenses, business losses through unpaid invoices, unpaid time spent
marketing, bookkeeping etc. In reality, billing at $25 an hour would
lead to a poverty income for any consultant, unless they were
consistently able to bill 60+ hours each & every week of the year, which
is not a reasonable or pleasant expectation.
Kristina
On 4/2/2011 3:56 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
> Well, my point wasn't so much an exact price but rather that the rate
> you charge largely has to do with where you're providing services. Since
> I'm not sure where Bruce is (I am assuming NYC but I don't know) I
> simply used a number I'd seen elsewhere. The number itself is
> meaningless, really, but the idea was what I was trying to convey.
>
> You're right though that 'website design' probably does differ a lot in
> rate from programming but numbers weren't my point. :-)
>
> Anthony
>
>
> On 04/02/2011 02:39 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>> That is incorrect. Perhaps a few programmers at Wall Street firms are
>> getting $90 an hour, but the going rate for normal folks here in NYC is
>> about $50/hr.
>>
>> Although for sure plenty of folks come onto the NYC list and try to
>> undercut our rates...
>>
>> Also "website redesign" is not usually programming but involves other
>> skills (like CSS, graphics design, etc). I would not be surprised to
>> see rates differ between that and actual programming tasks.
>>
>> Kristina
>>
>> On 4/2/2011 12:04 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>
>>> I think it largely depends where you are. For example, if you're in
>>> NYC, you can easily command a *much* higher rate than I can here in
>>> Oklahoma. In NYC, the going rate is $90+ an hour I hear while I work
>>> comfortably here for $25.50 to $30 an hour. So depending on where you
>>> are, you might not be undercharging at all.
>>>
>>> Check your competition and see what they charge. Set your prices
>>> according to your local market.
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> On 4/1/11, Bruce Martin<bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website
>>>> redesign is
>>>> going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging too
>>>> much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>>>>
>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recoverygov-web-site.html
>>>>l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really
>>>> eating
>>>> away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this bidding,
>>>> if in
>>>> deed it did go up for bid.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce Martin
>>>> c. 917-727-8230
>>>> p. 570-421-0670
>>>> bmartin at mac.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 03:19:40 -0500
From: Anthony Papillion <papillion at gmail.com>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
Message-ID: <4D96DC1C.7030904 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hmm...good points Kristina and it brought up a few things I'd not
considered. Perhaps I need to raise my rates a bit.
Anthony
On 04/02/2011 03:17 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
> Most programmers on this esteemed list, including those who are located
> in remote areas of the U.S., agree that working for substantially less
> than $50 sets a bad example and undercuts a living wage for the whole
> lot of us. I know many programmers outside of NYC who also earn the
> standard $50 an hour and I think that, for anyone of any reasonable
> expertise and experience, between $45-50 is a very reasonable benchmark
> and for costing out "lump sum" projects, the $2,000 a week figure is
> useful.
>
> Bear in mind that for every hour we bill out, we also incur the cost of
> expenses, business losses through unpaid invoices, unpaid time spent
> marketing, bookkeeping etc. In reality, billing at $25 an hour would
> lead to a poverty income for any consultant, unless they were
> consistently able to bill 60+ hours each & every week of the year, which
> is not a reasonable or pleasant expectation.
>
> Kristina
>
> On 4/2/2011 3:56 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>> Well, my point wasn't so much an exact price but rather that the rate
>> you charge largely has to do with where you're providing services. Since
>> I'm not sure where Bruce is (I am assuming NYC but I don't know) I
>> simply used a number I'd seen elsewhere. The number itself is
>> meaningless, really, but the idea was what I was trying to convey.
>>
>> You're right though that 'website design' probably does differ a lot in
>> rate from programming but numbers weren't my point. :-)
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>> On 04/02/2011 02:39 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>>> That is incorrect. Perhaps a few programmers at Wall Street firms are
>>> getting $90 an hour, but the going rate for normal folks here in NYC is
>>> about $50/hr.
>>>
>>> Although for sure plenty of folks come onto the NYC list and try to
>>> undercut our rates...
>>>
>>> Also "website redesign" is not usually programming but involves other
>>> skills (like CSS, graphics design, etc). I would not be surprised to
>>> see rates differ between that and actual programming tasks.
>>>
>>> Kristina
>>>
>>> On 4/2/2011 12:04 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>>
>>>> I think it largely depends where you are. For example, if you're in
>>>> NYC, you can easily command a *much* higher rate than I can here in
>>>> Oklahoma. In NYC, the going rate is $90+ an hour I hear while I work
>>>> comfortably here for $25.50 to $30 an hour. So depending on where you
>>>> are, you might not be undercharging at all.
>>>>
>>>> Check your competition and see what they charge. Set your prices
>>>> according to your local market.
>>>>
>>>> Anthony
>>>>
>>>> On 4/1/11, Bruce Martin<bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website
>>>>> redesign is
>>>>> going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging
>>>>> too
>>>>> much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recoverygov-web-site.html
>>>>>l
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really
>>>>> eating
>>>>> away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this bidding,
>>>>> if in
>>>>> deed it did go up for bid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce Martin
>>>>> c. 917-727-8230
>>>>> p. 570-421-0670
>>>>> bmartin at mac.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
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