[nycphp-talk] talk Digest, Vol 54, Issue 3
Travis Valdes
travisvaldes at gmail.com
Sat Apr 2 12:46:37 EDT 2011
The agency I work for charges $125/hr for both design and programming. We're in north nj, and most of our clients are on the west coast.
I've done freelancing for clients in NYC and charged $125/hr successfully. A designer working for the same company charged $150/hr.
I think it depends on your skills and how well and efficiently you can get the job done. Not all people are willing to pay for quality, but those are the clients everyone prefers to work with.
Travis
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 2, 2011, at 12:00 PM, talk-request at lists.nyphp.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: How much is a site redesign worth? (Bruce Martin)
> 2. Re: How much is a site redesign worth? (Jake McGraw)
> 3. Re: How much is a site redesign worth? (Kristina Anderson)
> 4. Re: How much is a site redesign worth? (Edgar Reyes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 09:47:41 -0400
> From: Bruce Martin <bmartin at mac.com>
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
> Message-ID: <A34A17F9-BACB-497D-94C5-0C4C338F5DF9 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> Bruce Martin
> c. 917-727-8230
> p. 570-421-0670
> bmartin at mac.com
>
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 4:17 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>
>> Most programmers on this esteemed list, including those who are located in remote areas of the U.S., agree that working for substantially less than $50 sets a bad example and undercuts a living wage for the whole lot of us. I know many programmers outside of NYC who also earn the standard $50 an hour and I think that, for anyone of any reasonable expertise and experience, between $45-50 is a very reasonable benchmark and for costing out "lump sum" projects, the $2,000 a week figure is useful.
>>
>> Bear in mind that for every hour we bill out, we also incur the cost of expenses, business losses through unpaid invoices, unpaid time spent marketing, bookkeeping etc. In reality, billing at $25 an hour would lead to a poverty income for any consultant, unless they were consistently able to bill 60+ hours each & every week of the year, which is not a reasonable or pleasant expectation.
>>
>> Kristina
>>
>> On 4/2/2011 3:56 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>> Well, my point wasn't so much an exact price but rather that the rate
>>> you charge largely has to do with where you're providing services. Since
>>> I'm not sure where Bruce is (I am assuming NYC but I don't know) I
>>> simply used a number I'd seen elsewhere. The number itself is
>>> meaningless, really, but the idea was what I was trying to convey.
>>>
>>> You're right though that 'website design' probably does differ a lot in
>>> rate from programming but numbers weren't my point. :-)
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/02/2011 02:39 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>>>> That is incorrect. Perhaps a few programmers at Wall Street firms are
>>>> getting $90 an hour, but the going rate for normal folks here in NYC is
>>>> about $50/hr.
>>>>
>>>> Although for sure plenty of folks come onto the NYC list and try to
>>>> undercut our rates...
>>>>
>>>> Also "website redesign" is not usually programming but involves other
>>>> skills (like CSS, graphics design, etc). I would not be surprised to
>>>> see rates differ between that and actual programming tasks.
>>>>
>>>> Kristina
>>>>
>>>> On 4/2/2011 12:04 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it largely depends where you are. For example, if you're in
>>>>> NYC, you can easily command a *much* higher rate than I can here in
>>>>> Oklahoma. In NYC, the going rate is $90+ an hour I hear while I work
>>>>> comfortably here for $25.50 to $30 an hour. So depending on where you
>>>>> are, you might not be undercharging at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check your competition and see what they charge. Set your prices
>>>>> according to your local market.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/1/11, Bruce Martin<bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website
>>>>>> redesign is
>>>>>> going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging too
>>>>>> much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recoverygov-web-site.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really
>>>>>> eating
>>>>>> away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this bidding,
>>>>>> if in
>>>>>> deed it did go up for bid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce Martin
>>>>>> c. 917-727-8230
>>>>>> p. 570-421-0670
>>>>>> bmartin at mac.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:07:45 -0400
> From: Jake McGraw <jmcgraw1 at gmail.com>
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=7scVYzNKwLbuB3nzBbJ60ZTHcrg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> NYC programmers should be charging much greater than $50/hour. What's
> $50/hour after the Federal, State and Local governments get their cut? As a
> consultant/part-timer/freelancer you'll be getting paid via 1099, which, at
> least in NYC, will be taxed at up to 45%. I haven't worked in finance, but
> when I've done parttime consulting, $150/hr was my going rate. In case
> anyone is unsure, demand for programmers in many localities is very, very
> high. In a hiring environment like this, there should be no reason to
> devalue your work to win a contract.
>
> - jake
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Bruce Martin <bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the replies.
>>
>> Bruce Martin
>> c. 917-727-8230
>> p. 570-421-0670
>> bmartin at mac.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2011, at 4:17 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> Most programmers on this esteemed list, including those who are located
>> in remote areas of the U.S., agree that working for substantially less than
>> $50 sets a bad example and undercuts a living wage for the whole lot of us.
>> I know many programmers outside of NYC who also earn the standard $50 an
>> hour and I think that, for anyone of any reasonable expertise and
>> experience, between $45-50 is a very reasonable benchmark and for costing
>> out "lump sum" projects, the $2,000 a week figure is useful.
>>>
>>> Bear in mind that for every hour we bill out, we also incur the cost of
>> expenses, business losses through unpaid invoices, unpaid time spent
>> marketing, bookkeeping etc. In reality, billing at $25 an hour would lead
>> to a poverty income for any consultant, unless they were consistently able
>> to bill 60+ hours each & every week of the year, which is not a reasonable
>> or pleasant expectation.
>>>
>>> Kristina
>>>
>>> On 4/2/2011 3:56 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>> Well, my point wasn't so much an exact price but rather that the rate
>>>> you charge largely has to do with where you're providing services. Since
>>>> I'm not sure where Bruce is (I am assuming NYC but I don't know) I
>>>> simply used a number I'd seen elsewhere. The number itself is
>>>> meaningless, really, but the idea was what I was trying to convey.
>>>>
>>>> You're right though that 'website design' probably does differ a lot in
>>>> rate from programming but numbers weren't my point. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Anthony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/02/2011 02:39 AM, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>>>>> That is incorrect. Perhaps a few programmers at Wall Street firms are
>>>>> getting $90 an hour, but the going rate for normal folks here in NYC is
>>>>> about $50/hr.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although for sure plenty of folks come onto the NYC list and try to
>>>>> undercut our rates...
>>>>>
>>>>> Also "website redesign" is not usually programming but involves other
>>>>> skills (like CSS, graphics design, etc). I would not be surprised to
>>>>> see rates differ between that and actual programming tasks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kristina
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/2/2011 12:04 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Bruce,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it largely depends where you are. For example, if you're in
>>>>>> NYC, you can easily command a *much* higher rate than I can here in
>>>>>> Oklahoma. In NYC, the going rate is $90+ an hour I hear while I work
>>>>>> comfortably here for $25.50 to $30 an hour. So depending on where you
>>>>>> are, you might not be undercharging at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check your competition and see what they charge. Set your prices
>>>>>> according to your local market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/1/11, Bruce Martin<bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website
>>>>>>> redesign is
>>>>>>> going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging
>> too
>>>>>>> much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recoverygov-web-site.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really
>>>>>>> eating
>>>>>>> away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this bidding,
>>>>>>> if in
>>>>>>> deed it did go up for bid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruce Martin
>>>>>>> c. 917-727-8230
>>>>>>> p. 570-421-0670
>>>>>>> bmartin at mac.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:16:52 -0400
> From: Kristina Anderson <ka at kacomputerconsulting.com>
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
> Message-ID: <4D972FD4.3070101 at kacomputerconsulting.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Jake,
>
> I agree totally, however the market won't bear those rates. 1099 income
> is subject to deductions for home office, travel expenses, meal expenses
> and the like and as such, has greater tax benefits than W2 income. In
> actuality, in localities where there are few engineers, rates are
> higher. NYC is packed to the gills with engineers seeking work. A post
> on NYC Craig's List for a programmer nets 1,000 resumes in one DAY.
> Between the high cost of living and the low rates due to high
> concentration of available skilled workers, NYC's not a great place to
> be a programmer, for sure.
>
> Believe me when I tell you, if there was any way for me to get more than
> $50/hr, I would have found it. I loathe the situation and am looking to
> leave the field entirely in the near future. For now, I slog it out and
> take what I can get.
>
> Kristina
>
> On 4/2/2011 10:07 AM, Jake McGraw wrote:
>> NYC programmers should be charging much greater than $50/hour. What's
>> $50/hour after the Federal, State and Local governments get their cut?
>> As a consultant/part-timer/freelancer you'll be getting paid via 1099,
>> which, at least in NYC, will be taxed at up to 45%. I haven't worked
>> in finance, but when I've done parttime consulting, $150/hr was my
>> going rate. In case anyone is unsure, demand for programmers in many
>> localities is very, very high. In a hiring environment like this,
>> there should be no reason to devalue your work to win a contract.
>>
>> - jake
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:20:42 -0400
> From: Edgar Reyes <ereyes at totalcreations.com>
> To: 'NYPHP Talk' <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
> Message-ID: <4F067DF4272545C781C79E6013C17A14 at MainTop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I think we are talking about 2 different things here, one is programming and
> the other is designing, Krista programmers in NYC make a lot more then $50
> per hour, depending on your skill set and what language you program in. For
> design work yes $50 per hour is about right for simple design work and even
> that is in the lower end, and that can vary depending on the sort of design,
> if it involves some sort of specialize CSS and or flash etc. then it goes
> up.
>
> ER
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
> Behalf Of Kristina Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 3:39 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] How much is a site redesign worth?
>
> That is incorrect. Perhaps a few programmers at Wall Street firms are
> getting $90 an hour, but the going rate for normal folks here in NYC is
> about $50/hr.
>
> Although for sure plenty of folks come onto the NYC list and try to
> undercut our rates...
>
> Also "website redesign" is not usually programming but involves other
> skills (like CSS, graphics design, etc). I would not be surprised to
> see rates differ between that and actual programming tasks.
>
> Kristina
>
> On 4/2/2011 12:04 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> I think it largely depends where you are. For example, if you're in
>> NYC, you can easily command a *much* higher rate than I can here in
>> Oklahoma. In NYC, the going rate is $90+ an hour I hear while I work
>> comfortably here for $25.50 to $30 an hour. So depending on where you
>> are, you might not be undercharging at all.
>>
>> Check your competition and see what they charge. Set your prices
>> according to your local market.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> On 4/1/11, Bruce Martin<bmartin at mac.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all, I was wondering how much the going rate for a website redesign is
>>> going for now days. I am always turned down in my town for charging too
>>> much, but I really can't see doing a site for less.
>>>
>>>
> http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/18m-being-spent-to-redesign-recover
> ygov-web-site.html
>>>
>>> I think I am under charging. Sorry to bring this up but it is really
> eating
>>> away at me, as I know I would have loved to been in on this bidding, if
> in
>>> deed it did go up for bid.
>>>
>>> Bruce Martin
>>> c. 917-727-8230
>>> p. 570-421-0670
>>> bmartin at mac.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nyphp.org
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> End of talk Digest, Vol 54, Issue 3
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